Motivations are all different. When I originally moved to LOS, I was living with my bf's family and was convinced they were talking about me all the time, so that was one motivation. Turns out, of course, they were discussing Granny's bad leg, and last night's soap opera, but at least I did eventually know what was going on.

Learning Thai is very rewarding. You not only learn the language, but if you have a good teacher, you learn proper Thai, not barboy patois. In addition, you also learn Thai etiquette, how to do a proper wai, and stuff like that.

Just knowing how to wai gives you lots of handy knowledge that can be used to place someone in the social hierarchy. Alas, it also makes you cringe every time you see someone waing a waiter or addressing his payboy for the night with the equivalent of "sir".

asiagayboy wrote:

Just knowing how to wai gives you lots of handy knowledge that can be used to place someone in the social hierarchy. Alas, it also makes you cringe every time you see someone waing a waiter or addressing his payboy for the night with the equivalent of "sir".

Asiagayboy, I could not agree with you more.


George.

asiagayboy wrote:

Just knowing how to wai gives you lots of handy knowledge that can be used to place someone in the social hierarchy. Alas, it also makes you cringe every time you see someone waing a waiter or addressing his payboy for the night with the equivalent of "sir".

While I find it relatively easy fixing someone's "place ... in the social heirarchy", I personally find the wai a very confusing indicator since there are simply too many variables - what is the status of the person initiating the wai, for example, is it based on age, financial status, marriage, etc, etc.

Since we, as farangs, are in an entirely different "social hierarchy", varying from farang kee-nok to farang hi-so, I find it far simpler to only wai monks and royalty, whose status is not in doubt, and to simply smile and nod instead - all Thais, as far as I am aware, accept this from farangs and it can avoid all manner of embarrassments

asiagayboy wrote:

In addition, you also learn Thai etiquette, how to do a proper wai, and stuff like that.  Just knowing how to wai gives you lots of handy knowledge that can be used to place someone in the social hierarchy. Alas, it also makes you cringe every time you see someone waing a waiter or addressing his payboy for the night with the equivalent of "sir".

True, but you don't need to know the language to learn those things; social etiquette such as not touching the head (well, connecting his arse to my face is an exception, I suppose) is much easier to determine by reading something like Culture Shock: Thailand

Gone Fishing wrote:

" ....

asiagayboy wrote:

Just knowing how to wai gives you lots of handy knowledge that can be used to place someone in the social hierarchy. Alas, it also makes you cringe every time you see someone waing a waiter or addressing his payboy for the night with the equivalent of "sir".

While I find it relatively easy fixing someone's "place ... in the social heirarchy", I personally find the wai a very confusing indicator since there are simply too many variables - what is the status of the person initiating the wai, for example, is it based on age, financial status, marriage, etc, etc.

Since we, as farangs, are in an entirely different "social hierarchy", varying from farang kee-nok to farang hi-so, I find it far simpler to only wai monks and royalty, whose status is not in doubt, and to simply smile and nod instead - all Thais, as far as I am aware, accept this from farangs and it can avoid all manner of embarrassments ... "

"Just smiling" is the best way out in almost every circumstance.  But don't be shy ...  try these simple rules regarding the wai:


Don't 'wai' ... or return a wai to:

• Anyone who is serving you in any commercial capacity
  
• Children
  
• Someone who is obviously drunk and is just wai-ing as an affectation.  Farangs do this a lot.

Don't wai first ... but do return a wai given to you by:

• An adult obviously younger than yourself, but not to a child or teenager.  But only do this once.
  
• A bank manager.  An Immigration officer. (you know what I mean   )
  
• A monk in the street (it would be rare for him to wai a farang)

Do wai:

• Good friends upon first greeting (e.g. at the airport ... after a long absence).  But no more wais after that.
  
• The parents and older siblings of your boyfriend on each first meeting.  
  
• The parents and older siblings of your boyfriend on each departing.
  
• Any adult who gives you a gift.
  
• Any person who you bump into (hard) on the street, in a crowded situation, in a bar.  (i.e. The wai used as a form of apology)
  
• Any Thai person who you've had a verbal altercation with, and settled it.

Keep it simple with the kind of wais:

• Old folks, parents of your friend, and monks if it ever becomes necessary should receive a wai which just touches the bottom tip of your nose
  
• To everyone else, the wai should held to just under the chin, no higher.
  
• Don't worry about the height of the wai to the King.  That'll never happen

Hope this helps.

Cheers ...



Last edited by Smiles on Thu 15 May, 2008 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

smiles - that is really useful - thank you!

catawampuscat wrote:

One can use the same rationalization about learning Thai as in losing weight /exercising, stopping smoking cigarettes etal...
.

Yes, the Cat is correct!  Rationalisation is my excuse for not trying to learn Thai. Always the first step is the most difficult in any enterprise.

It's worth mentioning that significant others you might be wanting to communicate with in Thai may not actually speak Thai as a first language.  I'm not exactly clear on what differences Lao/Issaan bear against central Thai, but I know that exclusive speakers of each have major difficulty communicating with each other.  The differences in Northern and Southern Thai appear to mostly be in accent, pronunciation, and speed.

Just listening to hours and hours of tapes while driving on my former job have made me understand more than I can possibly speak.  Sometimes 20% or so is all you need to get the major gist of conversation surrounding you.  There is no doubt if I was to relocate that the study of the language would be near the top of my priorities.

dave_tf wrote:

It's worth mentioning that significant others you might be wanting to communicate with in Thai may not actually speak Thai as a first language.  I'm not exactly clear on what differences Lao/Issaan bear against central Thai, but I know that exclusive speakers of each have major difficulty communicating with each other.  The differences in Northern and Southern Thai appear to mostly be in accent, pronunciation, and speed.

Just listening to hours and hours of tapes while driving on my former job have made me understand more than I can possibly speak.  Sometimes 20% or so is all you need to get the major gist of conversation surrounding you.  There is no doubt if I was to relocate that the study of the language would be near the top of my priorities.

Quite inaccurate.

Northern and Southern dialects are just as unintelligible to a speaker of central Thai as Isaan dialect is.

Also, I think you will be hard pressed to find a bar boy anywhere in Thailand that does not speak standard (central) Thai. It is the language of radio, TV, and all education, and is the lingua franca throughout the Kingdom.  The only people from Isan you will find who don't do so are perhaps the very old and completely uneducated.

dave_tf wrote:

I'm not exactly clear on what differences Lao/Issaan bear against central Thai, but I know that exclusive speakers of each have major difficulty communicating with each other.

Khun Dawit, when yours truly and you-know-who (native born Thai from Chiangrai living in Chiangmai for the last 12 years) went to Luang Prabang a couple of years back, he eventually began to speak with the locals and seemed to communicate very well.  He mentioned to me that the Lao language was "very similar" to Thai and he and they could communicate fairly well (I think he mentioned 90% to signify how much similar). He seemed surprised at the similarity.
Being able to read Thai in a mediocre manner, I noticed that the Lao letters were very similar - or at least most of them were (there's always some unusual font, both in Thai and Lao, that I have difficulty recognizing).

In Isaan, most folks speak Lao "at home" and Thai elsewhere.  In the southern-most provinces of Isaan (Buriram, Si Saket, Surin) along the Cambodian border many of the folks ~ especialy middleaged and older ~ speak Khymer, and this language is quite different and less well understood by Thais from elsewhere in Thailand and also northern Isaan.

My guy speaks fluent Thai, Lao, and Khymer, but when we are sitting in a music bar or restaurant it's when hearing Khymer spoken that his ears prick up and he looks around for the speaker and always goes over to introduce himself and have a good long chat.  That's usually when I'm left alone to entertain myself.

Cheers ...

Boygeenus/Remote is correct, in fact if it was not for TV and the soaps the Issan education system of learning Thai might falter. Some Lao words are identical but many are not, I have no idea on the percentage but 90% seems high?

In the city of Nong Khai you can pick up Lao TV, but not most places in Issan, even on the boarder. Charley Chaplin is popular in Lao, dubbed in Lao as a narrative.

Central Thai and Bangkok ThaiChi don't learn Lao. Some speak Mandarin as the family language but many also are sent to English schools at a very young age to make English their second language.

Though, even in Bangkok there are pockets of Issan housing where the children learn Lao first and then have to pick up Thai in school. No different than second generation immigrant families to the USA.

Many Thais are 'bi-lingual' in a loose sense. My bf (a Bangkokian) has a good friend in Chiangmai who must use Standard Thai when they're chatting, as my BF understand some, but not all of the northern dialect. I know another guy who was born in Thailand, but spoke Kymer before Thai as the family lived right on the border, and learned to speak both Lao and standard Thai fluently. Most Isaan guys speak the Isaan dialect of Lao, plus standard Thai equally well.

I wish you guys would knock it off with the BG stuff, it's getting stale.  All the moderators have to do is look at my IP address to tell you that I am my own man.