We are what  we  are, may be not  as free as we think or as open to new idea's and  more of a European way of thought. However this thread not withstanding who wrote it is disgusting to any American. I find  it pompous and about as  snub nosed as the  Brits can  make it. I always  knew  you guys had a feather up your arse. Now I am sure of  it. You act  write and  pretend to each other  you are  superior in every way to any other  group of people. You say with your own voice and  declare your own distaste for anyone not  British as if it were some gift from God.

I have  no idea  the origins of Mr. O' Booze, he talks of so many. But,  this was in my opinion,  out of  line. That  said lets all have a  drink and chase another  boy.

Wes

Marsilius wrote:

Gone Fishing wrote:

Any such list, for any country, is pretty childish, so on that note HC appears to be well to the back of the kindergarten class. Most of his points have been covered / rebutted already but:

1. Establishment of the first modern constitutional democracy.

The first? In 1966, when blacks were finally given the vote?

Many millions of American citizens are still permently disenfranchised, i.e. convicted criminals who have served their sentence, "paid their debt to society", been released but are still barred from voting (and hence fully reintegrating into that same society) for the rest of their lives.  

See http://hrw.org/english/docs/1998/10/22/usdom1351.htm and note the brief quotation from Jamie Fellner in the small box on the left.  As far as I can find, the situation has got even worse since the date of that report.  See also http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9785-2004Aug17.html

Convicted felons cannot vote in the USA.  If you want to vote, then don't commit a felony.

Note well that this penalty does not apply to those convicted of misdemeanor crimes.

So, is this a good idea, or not?  The Democrats are trying to get this rule rejected.

And so are YOU.

Quote:

Wesley said:
I have  no idea  the origins of Mr. O' Booze

The clue is in the name. The Irish fought long and hard to leave the United Kingdom which is where the British come from. I respect their decision but welcome their wholly sensible and responsible participation in the EU. Blaming their misdemeanours on the British beggars belief. Your post displays the bigotry you accuse others of and one has to wonder whether it was written under the influence of a stronger intoxicant than your latest pinnoy.

555 wrote:

Quote:

Wesley said:
I have  no idea  the origins of Mr. O' Booze

The clue is in the name. The Irish fought long and hard to leave the United Kingdom which is where the British come from. I respect their decision but welcome their wholly sensible and responsible participation in the EU. Blaming their misdemeanours on the British beggars belief. Your post displays the bigotry you accuse others of and one has to wonder whether it was written under the influence of a stronger intoxicant than your latest pinnoy.

I only get a bit upset after months of the Anti-American junk that infectects this forum. Actually, your  best  off spring were the Aussies. I can't  remember one Anti-Brit thread unless it was when bush and Blair were Buddies. Its just that it gets old after a while. Gosh, you guys are gonna Run poor Henry off the  forum.  After all these years you would think we could let something slide ocassioanlly. But  every oportunity to  make it tough with bigoted words like high on a Pinnoy. I happen to think the guys here look good and I have never been much of a drunk. I only get  sick, not  drunk. So I don't bother.  What is your excuse for your arrogance and bitterness. Actually, some of my best friends in the world are Brits and Aussies. I never have anything but good to say about you guys. You are all over the world with some shop of some kind, often in the worst envireoments and making a livng in places others won't tred. Why not ease up a bit. Homi, I can understand , hei s just a bitter old cunt  but  you , I thought better of.

Wes

Quote:

What is your excuse for your arrogance and bitterness.

Constant completely unjustifiable side swipes at the British and English on this forum. If you post "I find it pompous and about as snub nosed as the Brits can make it" when the original isn't even posted by someone British I don't think I'm being arrogant and bitter to call you on it, I just think your faculties must be impaired.

fattman wrote:

Henry Cate wrote:

Notable American Achievements:

1. Establishment of the first modern constitutional democracy.
2. Establishment of the freedom of religion and the freedom of speech.
3. Successful development (still ongoing) of the largest untouched continent on Earth.
4. Successful acceptance of millions of refugees from around the globe.
5. Succeeding in abolishing slavery.
6. Helped England win WW I.
7. Helped England win WW II.
8. Led the Free World against the Communists, and won without firing a shot.
9. Took a large part in the invention of the computer.
10. Invented and commercialized jet transport for the common man.
11. Invented and commercialized the personal computer.
12. Invented and commercialized the Internet.
13. Discoverer of the vaccine against polio, etc. etc. etc.
14. Basically invented the whole idea of mass production and made automobiles available to all.
15. Invented the telephone and the electric light, plus sound recording.

This list could go on and on, but anyway, when you finish typing out your "God Damn America" tirade on your PC, and post it over the Internet to Sawatdee Forum, then call up a friend to say how much Americans piss you off, and then turn off the lights and turn on your stereo to go to sleep, while planning on your car trip to Hua Hin next month, please realize that No America = no PC, no Internet, no phone, no lights, no stereo and no car.  (Yes, I am well aware that the Germans invented the car, but Henry Ford brought it to the millions.)

Oh, and when you plan your next trip home, think about who made that trip possible. (Can you say "Boeing" or "Howard Hughes?")

But all of this is simply too well-known to be worth repeating.

I do wish, though, at least sometimes, these crackpots would sit back and ask themselves, "After all, what have -- for example -- we ruddy British accomplished in the last fifty years?"  Even more, you might ask yourself, "Was there something in our economic system that held people back?"

Envy is a truly ugly thing, and one of the seven deadly sins.

I would like to suggest that you go back through your list and correct the errors, or you will be in for the usual barrage of nasty postings.

I will be in for the usual barrage of nasty postings whether I follow your advice or not.    

I haven't seen the need to change one syllable, so far.  Let's take the computer.  I actually wrote:

Quote:

9. Took a large part in the invention of the computer.

What I was trying to condense into one short sentence was the complexity of the actual invention.  I credit Turing most, but the actual PLACE where people started making and selling computers is basically spelled IBM.  Konrad Zuse was a brilliant man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Zuse

But Zuse took no part in the actual invention of the REAL computers made by IBM.  Yes, IBM bought up his patents.  Good for Zuse, and good for IBM, which, by the way, radically underestimated the market for these new devices.  I believe that the genius running the show at IBM thought that they might be able to sell a dozen a year.

But yes: Germans love to trot out old Konrad as proof that they were really there before anyone else.  My take is: they were close, but UNFORTUNATELY they had a crazy Fascist leader running their country, got involved in a huge war, and lost that war.

Another thing I wrote:

Quote:

11. Invented and commercialized the personal computer.

Well, someone criticized this as being a mere "development."  That's because it's impossible to deny the originator of this idea.  To back up for a moment, the original IBM mainframes were based on the technology of the vacuum tube.  A few decades later, DEC invented the computer based on the transistor, and changed the computing world.  It only remained for some other Americans (debate rages between TI and Intel) to re-base the computer on the Integrated Circuit, beyond all doubt an American invention.

So the computer population soared -- from a couple thousand IBM mainframes, based on tubes -- to a few hundred thousand minicomputers, based on transistors -- to MILLIONS, based on the IC.  Some "development" that was -- and Europe was NOWHERE during all these years!!  Nowhere!  They had NO comprehension of the issues involved, they had no experience in manufacturing this equipment, they were just totally lost.

When I worked at ROLM, and IBM sold me to Siemens, I was amazed to find Siemens (in the 1980's!!!!) bringing their "mainframe" to California, the world-unknown "BS2000," along with highly-paid support engineers.  Even funnier, the "BS2000" was the result of a joint venture between Siemens and Control Data!  Even more funny: despite the number of times that the Germans were politely told that "BS" meant "bullshit," they never changed the name of that dinosaur.

Then Siemens brought out their PC, priced at $9,000.

So: the invention and sale of the PC may have been a mere "development," but I challenge someone to name any European firm which is a successful player in this market.

A toast to Konrad Zuse, and all the Europeans who ignored him!!!

Wesley wrote:

I have  no idea  the origins of Mr. O' Booze, he talks of so many. But,  this was in my opinion,  out of  line. That  said lets all have a  drink and chase another  boy.

Wes

The origins of "Lunchtime O'Booze" lie in the UK satirical magazine Private Eye.  He has featured for many years, in that august organ, as a stereotypical Fleet Street hack whose afternoon/evening compositions for the next day's edition of his newspaper are likely to have been made more "colourful" by his lunchtime visit to the local pub.

He shares his newsroom with his colleague, the newspaper's well-known music critic Lunchtime O'Boulez.

555 wrote:

Quote:

What is your excuse for your arrogance and bitterness.

Constant completely unjustifiable side swipes at the British and English on this forum. If you post "I find it pompous and about as snub nosed as the Brits can make it" when the original isn't even posted by someone British I don't think I'm being arrogant and bitter to call you on it, I just think your faculties must be impaired.

I was, if you read carefully, talking about the general Anti-American insults on this forum, as if we were so terrible as to think we may need to be exterminated as in the Holocaust, let’s get rid of the poor stupid bastards. If I say good things well about the Brits and still get vitriol in return. Why should I care,  It’s as if you really could care less what I say or think and not only me but any American, is it that I’m so different that you feel I  must be reviled. Called stupid having less than my faculties. I just don’t have a gift at writing; it makes my opinion no less important than yours.  , it has nothing to do with my ability to think, care, cry, hope and seek adventure in life. I’m the last of the bitter ones. I just  occasionally get  tired of all the  American  vitriol and even more  upset that  the rest of the  qualified Americans on the  forum are not willing to stand up for themselves. I realize and admit we have had a tough 8 years, not only so but, admit it outright. However,  I can not say what any of us  would have  done after such things happening during those  8 years, Bush was dammed if he did and dammed if  He  didn’t  do something about  9-11. I personally think he should have finished with Afghanistan, but who knows what the Pentagon was feeding him as a steady diet. It is one thing to question someone’s actions quite another to question his motives. Even the journalist stop there, realizing they don’t knows the heart of men or angles. Yet, you come along with judgments and if I am right, on day judged by them. Mercy begets mercy, in a day and era when there is much to little of Mercy or grace, or in the turning of the cheek, it seems you and others like you would find something good to say about their neighbor and friends on the forum, yet you provoke people like me who have never felt the need to make myself seem good by making others seem small. You were likely the school yard bully and have carried it into your old age.

Maybe you should temper your posts with a bit of care for your fellow human beings, make a few friends. After all, a real friend and good friends are so hard to come by. As much as I am buffeted  by  Homi I find a place  or, opportunity to just let  his words pass as  what they are,  short often  funny one liners. Ah, but if you could do the same. But you are of no such quality and it would serve you better not to try to be like him. Less of you and more of Homi at this point would be a blessing. Ah, but you must remain center stage to gratify your need to needed and loved and admired by your failing quick wit and lack of compassion. What a bleeding heart it is as you silently cry out for others to make you feel important. I like myself, just as I am and need no one to make me feel better about me. I have at least lived up to my own conscience and my own internal laws Witten on my own heart as a guide to how I treat others. Even the kids know the golden rule; you must have missed your childhood.

No matter, I waste my time on you I think. I am sure you will prove me right with some retort off the cuff and meant to degrade or malign others or me. The sad part really is, I really don’t  care ,I had expected better of you, but you ganging up on some one already down and out numbered like Henry me and others to gratify your own lust for self esteem is really so child like, I feel sorry for you. In as much as you seem to be intelligent well written and usually of a good nature. Maybe, I was wrong, maybe you are everything you seem not be in your most recent posts. It seems logical you would pick on someone of your own caliber like Homiturn or Smiles if you wish to prove how smart bright and intelligent you are, why not spar with someone in your own class instead of some one who, in your own words consider to be less than provocative intellectually gifted as you are.

Wes

Henry Cate wrote:

I haven't seen the need to change one syllable, so far.  Let's take the computer. .....

Henry states that the Europeans were absent during the invention/development of the computer but ignores the fact that the first two computers built using von Neumann architecture (from which all subsequent computers derive, I believe) were built in the UK.  On 21 June 1948, Frederic C. Williams of the University of Manchester managed to run the prototype of the Manchester Mark I, and thus proved it was possible to build a stored-program, universal computer. The first really functional von Neumann computer was built by Maurice Wilkes at Cambridge University.

Henry's little saga also forgets the role played in the invention of the computer (and much of the USA's technological economy) by that country's military-industrial complex. Chomsky, even if taken with a lot of salt, has some interesting things to say on this, in his interview with Subrata Ghosroy, at http://www.alternet.org/audits/101530/chomsky%3A_%22if_the_u.s._carries_out_terrorism%2C_it_did_not_happen%22/

Gone Fishing is on your IGNORE list.

Quote:

Henry states that the Europeans were absent during the invention/development of the computer

What I actually SAID was that Europeans were absent during the invention of the microcomputer.  

Regarding the invention of the computer itself, I have only said that America played a large part in bringing it to life.  The principal players were:

(first) Alan Turing

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_turing

(second)  John von Neumann.

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann

and many others!  But it does not seem to be to be my job here -- to explain the extraordinary development of the computer.  Especially to people looking for the nationalistic "sound bite" rather than any serious discusssion of the issues involved.

I repeat, once again, that America only played "a large part" in this development, primarily by bringing such people as Turing and von Neumann together.

Bu there have been a kazillion books written on this, so I will stop now.

I haven't read through the whole thread... but I would just say that America has a lot to be proud of. A lot of the most useful technologies and things we use come from the US and they've achieved a lot of good things.

They are far from perfect and there's a lot of things undesirable about the US but the same can be said about a lot of countries. And just because there may be some really undesirable things about them... doesn't make them a write off to be slandered to no end.

All the great superpowers have achieved great things, but also pissed off many in doing so. The British were utterly brutal. They practically raped India.

China is next... or will they break the trend?

Henry Cate wrote:

Quote:

Henry states that the Europeans were absent during the invention/development of the computer

What I actually SAID was that Europeans were absent during the invention of the microcomputer.  ..........

Well, Henry, I have read and re-read your earlier postings and cannot actually find the word "microcomputer" in any of your postings over than the one quote above.  

As for being absent, Spectrum Research Ltd released the ZX Spectrum in 1982, so-called to highlight its color display and to contrast it with its predecessor the Sinclair ZX81 (released in 1981) and ZX80 (released in 1980). The company was based in Cambridge, England, and its founder was Sir Clive Sinclair, who invented the world's first pocket calculator, the Sinclair Executive. Amstrad bought the company in 1986. Amstrad was another British company in the PC, founded in 1968. It manufactured PCs from the early 1980s too.

cottmann wrote:

Henry Cate wrote:

Quote:

Henry states that the Europeans were absent during the invention/development of the computer

What I actually SAID was that Europeans were absent during the invention of the microcomputer.  ..........

Well, Henry, I have read and re-read your earlier postings and cannot actually find the word "microcomputer" in any of your postings over than the one quote above.  

As for being absent, Spectrum Research Ltd released the ZX Spectrum in 1982, so-called to highlight its color display and to contrast it with its predecessor the Sinclair ZX81 (released in 1981) and ZX80 (released in 1980). The company was based in Cambridge, England, and its founder was Sir Clive Sinclair, who invented the world's first pocket calculator, the Sinclair Executive. Amstrad bought the company in 1986. Amstrad was another British company in the PC, founded in 1968. It manufactured PCs from the early 1980s too.

We are on Mars and the Chinese are just  now making thier first  space  walk, Much of our  people are  imported for sure, nevertheless the land of the  free has some majior accomplishments  and  no task seems to be to big  for them to undertake a shot at it.

So, you can say what  you will abaout me and Cates and other Americans, its time Americans say as in the...   U tube post, I'm mad as hell and I'm not  going to take it any more .

To few of us sit in the  lurkign mood, when many of you have the inteligence and  writing ablity to respond to some ofthe  ant-American  sentiment so often posted on this board. Its time to stand up and be counted. You don't need to jump into a thread like thisoen, but begin to post  gain some respecabulity and begin to  have our  say as well. Surely their are better  writers out thre than me and  Cates. Its time  you voice your mind and  say what you think, that is unless you agree with much of the  junk posted about  Americans here.

Wes