Thailand Aids Vaccine results

[dab69]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32997306/ns/health-aids/

First time an AIDS vaccine reduced
infection rates by 31%

[gearguy]

I like to hear good news on the HIV front, but I wonder if the results are actually that as statistically significant as the media
is portraying them.

"Results: New infections occurred in 51 of the 8,197 given vaccine and in 74 of the 8,198 who received dummy shots. That worked out to a 31 percent lower risk of infection for the vaccine group."

It will interesting to see the actual paper when it is presented and see the statistical analysis. The question is the delta of 23 new infections statistically significant or could be due to standard variation. I'm in the middle of a graduate program in statistics, so I think I'll use this paper for a project in one of my classes.

Nonetheless, indicates a promising line for future developments.

[dab69]

maybe considering the population studied, it's best to
focus on the 16,000 that didn't get infected :)

[gearguy]

According to the press release all participants were given frequent safe sex counseling, condoms, and every six month testing.
Forgetting the value of the vaccine study, a testament that aids prevention campaigns that are focused and on-going work at decreasing new infections. Sadly, through out much of world, there appears to be decreasing emphasis on such programs. Not too mention the stupidity of the abstinence programs the previous US admin pushed both in the states and abroad.

[Gone Fishing]

Ditto to all of the above.

The selection criteria was a little bizarre.

My partner, who lives with me monogamously, was asked at our local clinic if he wanted to take part in the study after the ancient receptionist noticed me waiting for him to have a dressing changed after a m/c accident (he said no).

My ex's wife in Pattaya, who was obviously not practicing safe sex as she had already had one son with him and at the time the study started was pregnant with another despite knowing that my ex was HIV+, was never asked about the study by the government doctor regularly checking her, even though he knew the HIV status of both of them.

[gearguy]

from what I read, all the participants needed to test HIV neg at the start of the study. So your ex and your ex's wife would not meet the selection criteria; that's why they were probably not asked about participating. Likewise, I would expect that a person HIV neg but stating they are in a monogamous relation with another HIV neg person, would not have been selected as well.

There have been studies in the past that looked for "magnetic" couples.

[Gone Fishing]

Sorry, GG, I can't have been clear, particularly about the ex.

Even though my partner and I were/are HIV neg, and monogamous, he was still asked.

Even though my ex's wife was HIV neg, while he was HIV pos and they obviously were having unprotected sex, she was not asked (and surely fewer people could be at higher risk?).

[giggsy]

According to the press release all participants were given frequent safe sex counseling, condoms, and every six month testing.
Forgetting the value of the vaccine study, a testament that aids prevention campaigns that are focused and on-going work at decreasing new infections. Sadly, through out much of world, there appears to be decreasing emphasis on such programs. Not too mention the stupidity of the abstinence programs the previous US admin pushed both in the states and abroad.

This is not good news. If these people were given sex councelling and free condoms and 125 still managed to get HIV then how many would have got it without counceling and condoms.The mind boggles.

[Beachlover]

According to the press release all participants were given frequent safe sex counseling, condoms, and every six month testing.
Forgetting the value of the vaccine study, a testament that aids prevention campaigns that are focused and on-going work at decreasing new infections. Sadly, through out much of world, there appears to be decreasing emphasis on such programs. Not too mention the stupidity of the abstinence programs the previous US admin pushed both in the states and abroad.

This is not good news. If these people were given sex councelling and free condoms and 125 still managed to get HIV then how many would have got it without counceling and condoms.The mind boggles.

Disturbing to say the least... that 125 still got it. I wonder how they got it... and if it was through consensual unsafe sex... what was their decision process?

[Beachlover]

I like to hear good news on the HIV front, but I wonder if the results are actually that as statistically significant as the media
is portraying them.

"Results: New infections occurred in 51 of the 8,197 given vaccine and in 74 of the 8,198 who received dummy shots. That worked out to a 31 percent lower risk of infection for the vaccine group."

It will interesting to see the actual paper when it is presented and see the statistical analysis. The question is the delta of 23 new infections statistically significant or could be due to standard variation. I'm in the middle of a graduate program in statistics, so I think I'll use this paper for a project in one of my classes.

Nonetheless, indicates a promising line for future developments.

Well apparently the search for a vaccine has been so bleak, they felt even this was big news. I think it is only a breakthrough if it leads onto bigger and better discoveries.

On BBC someone said it would need an efficacy rate of 70-80% to be considered a vaccine.

I'm worried if they got close to making a viable vaccine people would get careless in terms of safe sex.

[Surfcrest]

I’m guessing that with comments like these, some of you don’t have many / if any friends with HIV. Every case is different. How absurd it is to assume that this is simply a matter of decisions.

I have quite a few friends that are HIV positive. Many became infected in relationships that they thought were monogamous. They never thought they needed to use protection in a relationship where their only sexual partner started out HIV negative. How many of us here are in or think we’re in monogamous relationships? How many still like to eat out from time to time, with / without your partner knowing or suspect your partner of doing the same?

Party drugs have had a huge impact on infection rates. There is an undercurrent of this sort of thing on gay social sites, in bathhouses at rave parties on Craigslist. Crystal Meth (Yaba) and sex play is known as “party and play” or PnP. Certainly none of these terms are foreign to Thailand.

How about the world of porn? One of the biggest tickets out there appears to be BB or barebacking. There’s a fascination with BB for some reason, that when combined with any of the above leads to infections and the domino effect.

There’s a great big mix happening out there. People from opposite sides of the city and indeed opposite sides of the world are meeting up, hooking up. All that crap that I described above is floating in that big mix of people. You may never know how close you’ve come to any of this crap or even becoming infected yourself…or maybe you do.

[soi_toi]

I can understand testing vaccines on lab rats or mice, but asking for volunteers, especially for HIV.

It's like telling these people that they'll eventually contract the virus anyway so they may as well test the vaccine for them. THem being major drug corporations who will make huge massive profits from these vaccines, at the peril of these people who agree to this.

I hope they're being compensates well for putting their lives on the line.

[Bob]

I can understand testing vaccines on lab rats or mice, but asking for volunteers, especially for HIV.

It's like telling these people that they'll eventually contract the virus anyway so they may as well test the vaccine for them. THem being major drug corporations who will make huge massive profits from these vaccines, at the peril of these people who agree to this.

I hope they're being compensates well for putting their lives on the line.

I think there's some misunderstanding here on a couple of points.

Based on what I've read about this study, the volunteers (both the ones given the test vaccine and the ones given the placebo) were provided counseling about safe sex practices and the danger of HIV. For the volunteers who ended up testing positive for HIV, they apparently ignored the counseling advice given and obviously engaged in unprotected sex. I don't see how you can blame the study for that (those that contracted the disease didn't get it from the vaccine being tested).

And all vaccines are ultimately tested this way (to my knowledge, no vaccine has ever been administered to the public simply by studying how lab rats react to it).

[Beachlover]

My ex's wife in Pattaya, who was obviously not practicing safe sex as she had already had one son with him and at the time the study started was pregnant with another despite knowing that my ex was HIV+, was never asked about the study by the government doctor regularly checking her, even though he knew the HIV status of both of them.

Goodness... interesting situation.

So the wife had unsafe sex with him knowing he was HIV+? I hope the son didn't get it. Or was he conceived before the husband had HIV?

[Beachlover]

I’m guessing that with comments like these, some of you don’t have many / if any friends with HIV. Every case is different. How absurd it is to assume that this is simply a matter of decisions.

I have quite a few friends that are HIV positive. Many became infected in relationships that they thought were monogamous. They never thought they needed to use protection in a relationship where their only sexual partner started out HIV negative. How many of us here are in or think we’re in monogamous relationships? How many still like to eat out from time to time, with / without your partner knowing or suspect your partner of doing the same?

Party drugs have had a huge impact on infection rates. There is an undercurrent of this sort of thing on gay social sites, in bathhouses at rave parties on Craigslist. Crystal Meth (Yaba) and sex play is known as “party and play” or PnP. Certainly none of these terms are foreign to Thailand.

How about the world of porn? One of the biggest tickets out there appears to be BB or barebacking. There’s a fascination with BB for some reason, that when combined with any of the above leads to infections and the domino effect.

There’s a great big mix happening out there. People from opposite sides of the city and indeed opposite sides of the world are meeting up, hooking up. All that crap that I described above is floating in that big mix of people. You may never know how close you’ve come to any of this crap or even becoming infected yourself…or maybe you do.

You're right... I don't know anyone (that I'm aware of) with it. I'm sure I've come across it before.

That's why I'm curious as to how normally-rational (or perhaps, irrational?) people get it. I saw Nicholas Snow's story on YouTube... seems like he was depressed and lonely at the time and a younger guy convinced him he was clean so he took the risk... even though (he says) he has always had safe sex previously. What a terrible slip up.

I've never BB'd so no idea what it feels like. But the condom is so thin, I don't know if not having it on makes that much of a difference. The last time I topped the boy was so tight it felt amazing once it was in...

Yeah, I've heard a lot of people get it when they're in a long-term relationship and decide it's ok to start having unsafe sex. I heard someone say this is one way women get it too... from their bi-sexual husbands.