Bar Boys - Gay or straight, does it matter?

[z909]

Ultimately all the bar boys have all made a choice to work in the bars, so I don't see the problem in being a customer.

[x in pattaya]

It really doesn't matter if the boy is gay or str8 as long as he turns you on in bed...seems like a lot of imagination would be required to even think that the boy enjoys sliding on the bed next to you.

I guess for some, this doesn't matter. Let me re-phrase that: It appears that most of you could care less about the feelings of the human being your [sic] with, as long as he acts the part well enough to feed your warped apitites [sic].

And you think a gay 20 year old boy is thrilled to be in bed with some fat old farang?

I have never said that the straight boys... at the moment my current LT friend, one guy from Cupidol and one from Cartier would want sex with me if no other consideration were involved. The two bar boys chose to work in the bars. When they come to see me they get food, drinks and can watch football or whatever they want on satellite TV. The only sexual thing I require of them is probably the easiest thing in the world for a straight boy to do. And none of them has ever had the least problem doing it. Judging by the force & volume when they cum, it may not be their first choice for sex, but they sure aren't in any pain. And the two bar boys get regular offs with someone they feel comfortable with, who tips them well beyond anything I would admit to here and who has provided additional support to them on several occasions.

My current LT friend and his two predecessors worked in bars and I retired them from that work. One of them went into something to do with tourism. I haven't seen him in a few years so I'm not sure what he's doing now, but I saw him through the training and he was on his way with (I think) TAT when we parted company. The second has gone back to farming at home, but I continue to help him out even though I rarely see him anymore.We talk on the phone weekly and that's about the extent of the dehumanizing I put him through.

The current LT friend I've set up in business after paying for computer training and buying him computers, video game equipment, scanners, a digital camera and paying the rent for a shop for a full year, etc. When I first came across him he was working in a bar in Soi Twilight. After I offed him twice, the next time I saw him he asked if he could sleep one day at my room at the Tarntawan because he had just been put out of his room for nonpayment of rent. He hated the bar work and his prospects for an improved life were just about nil.

Before he started the computer classes I taught him a few basic things, but in less than a year he has gotten into basic computer graphics and can produce printed material to order, ID cards, passport photos etc, he has a few video game stations for kids to use and has a thriving business. He's building a home on some land his mother gave him. He only spends a few days at a time with me because that's the way I want it and the rest of the time he's home with his family, establishing a respectable business and building a home for himself.

When he's here, he spends most of his time with his laptop on the Internet, checking out the latest stuff at TukCom, watching sports or movies on satellite TV and yes, a few times I want some sex with him and he enjoys it because it's the only payback I ever want from him.

I'm not sure if I can manage it financially, but I'd like to retire one of the other barboys and find him something to do that will lead to a better life for him as well.

Now fuck-off, you tell me I could care less about them. Yes they enjoy having sex with me insofar as they're ready, willing and able to do something I enjoy in return for what I've done for them and/or the concern I've shown for them & their futures.

"I'm saying your [sic] fucked in the head because you chose to de-humanize people...just because you can."

I'll compare what I've done any day to you and your gossipy crap about red-eyed monks that you've decided must be on yaa baa. You are a know nothing, pompous parasite.

Chickenboy...

On the slight chance that the picture shown in your avatar is actually you, I would love to have you teach me some Thai phrases some time. I'm a slow learner, so it will require a lot of time and patience on your end.

Just let me know if you're interested ?

What an enormous creep you are.

[dab69]

wow that was nice

does it matter? not to me. If they're cute and cool it's fine with me.
And I'm not old and fat like X

[Dodger]

X...first of all I think you're full of shit, and don't buy into any of your fables.

Secondly, after writing five paragraphs trying to rationlize your perverted life style, you go on the vicious attack. Sounds like a person thats flooded with guilt and self-doubt (or self-loathing) to me.

Or...I guess that it's possible that you actually caught a glimps of yourself in the mirror...and all hell broke out...555

[Smiles]

" ... Secondly, after writing five paragraphs trying to rationlize your perverted life style, you go on the vicious attack. Sounds like a person thats flooded with guilt and self-doubt (or self-loathing) to me ... "

Dearest Dodger,
I tremblingly admit to knowing X-in-Pattaya personally (rather than biblically, though not from lack of him trying his best) and I can assure you that 'perverted life style" is as far from an accurate observation as I can imagine.
"Self-doubt" ... well maybe, but 'nit noi'.

Cheers ...

[rocket]

Dodger,what your saying is that everyone on this board is living a perverted lifestyle.X was having sex with another man. Just because the other man is straight doesnt make it any more "perverted". Oh well ,back to watching "swimming to Cambodia with Spalding grey.

[x in pattaya]

X...first of all I think you're full of shit, and don't buy into any of your fables.

Easily substantiated ... the alleged fables, that is. The next time that Khun Smiles is in town he can interrogate the computer wizard and he already has met the retired rice farmer.

Secondly, after writing five paragraphs trying to rationlize your perverted life style, you go on the vicious attack.

I know writing 5 coherent paragraphs would be quite an undertaking for you, but it really didn't require that much effort.


Actually I was responding to a vicious attack from a sex tourist who dabbles in package tours of the rural areas, which he erroneously feels makes him an expert on life in the third world.

I gather your nonsensical rant was motivated by frustration because one more 'friend" in a lengthening succession of ladyboys you hire for company, has headed off for greener pasture ... or should I say less suffocating & odious pastures.

Sweetie,I can feel your pain even though I haven't experienced anything nearly so devastating to my ego, or so often. So even though you're little more than an occasional visitor to Thailand, some would say sex tourist, replacing your inflatable companions at home with living, breathing cut-rate ladyboys who you elevate to the status of "my boy friend," I'm sure it's frustrating when they keep leaving you.

When it comes to "perverted" and "fables," I couldn't hold a candle to you, pumpkin. Download some more porn and enjoy yourself, by yourself.

P.S.

Dodger,what your saying is that everyone on this board is living a perverted lifestyle.X was having sex with another man. Just because the other man is straight doesnt make it any more "perverted".

Thanks for that illumination on his name calling. I wasn't really sure what it was that made me especially perverted in Dodger's eyes. Hey, I'm queer. I like men. It's nice many of you think it doesn't make any difference whether a guy is straight or gay, but I generally find the straighter ones scratch my itch better than the gayer ones. Can't help it. Not going to try to change it. And, I sure don't think anyone who thinks otherwise is anymore perverted than me ... at least not based on their sexual preferences.

I guess we're all created Queer, but some of us are Queerer than others.

P.P.S

Incidentally, if it'll help further infuriate Dodgey with tales of my perversions... One reason I am now totally finished with doing the gogo bar crawl is because I finally found the perfect weekly home visitor to get me through those times when I am unable to practice my perversions on my LT friend due to his dehumanizing time spent at home with his family. My new home therapist is actually the stereotypical Muay Thai guy. Tattoos, muscles, abs, sexy squint. I do have a load of photos of him, but there's no chance in hell I'll share those and there's even less chance I'll divulge where he could be found, but (as the poster below says) several times aweek I am indeed a Muay Thai Smoker! I'm so ashamed of my perversion ... but I'm learning to live with it. [Neither photo is of him, but they give you a taste of what I taste and he does come close to the guy in action in red in the top picture]

[catawampuscat]

Tolerance is difficult sometimes and especially when we are all
anonymous and misunderstandings are rife.
Many Western gay men look down on all of us, who love Thailand, as rice
queens and denegrate Asians as being undesirable and only for
losers who can't get white guys.
We are insulated on a forum like this but I can remember many men who looked down on men who
enjoyed Asians and Blacks for that matter as well..

As gay men who enjoy Asian men we do the same thing. Some of
us look down at men who like ladyboys/fem boys. Some of us look
down at those who like fatter boys or skinny boys or darker skinned
or lighter skinned. Some look down at those who like the muscle boys
and of course some look down at those who like straight boys over
gay boys.

It is all narrow minded thinking and unfortunately turns us against each
other. Many of us are locked into the mindset of our youth with roles,
racial views, and types fixed in our minds.
I find it unfortunate that X in Pattaya and Dodger have crossed swords
over the issue of sex with straight boys.

I believe the Thai boys, in the business, see it differently and are not locked into the set of beliefs drummed into us at an early age..
Sex is a wonderful thing and many of the boys call themselves 'straight or man' and have fem lady boyfriends and see no conflict in identifying as straight.
Some 'straight' boys are far better in bed than some gay boys and having
great sex is a skill shared by gay and non gay boys as is having lousy sex.

I don't care who you have sex with as long as it isn't the one I want and since
I steer away from the beauties, I rarely find other farangs with my own tastes.

One big lie, is that heterosexual men don't enjoy anal stimulation. Liberated
hetero men enjoy having their butthole played with as it is a senual erogonous zone. Free your minds and just realize that everyone has their own interests and as long as it isn't in the kindergarten, just allow that your tastes are not universal. Some boys just like sex with almost anyone and some don't. Of course it is all about money and money is power and it is all
about fun and having the time of your life if you don't get too bogged down
in all the shit..

[Dodger]

Cat...

I can't disagree with any of the points you raise, and must admit that I've been a little off target lately.

X...

As tough as it is to admit, you have rasied some valid points as well.

My recent breakup with the boy (ladyboy) I referred to as my BF, has put me in a bit of a tail spin, which you have so accurately detected. One correction though: He didn't leave me - I left him, and the pasture he retreated to is not as green as the one he was forced to leave, and for that I will always be distressed. I drew a firm line with him regarding yaba, and he decided to cross it. My heart has been crushed in the process..not quite sure about me ego.

My apologies to you and anyone else I have offended by my comments on this post. I am certainly not an expert on this topic, nor any other topic related to Thailand, as I am constantly seeking to learn, and do so by making mistakes along the way.

mai pen rai

[x in pattaya]

Cat...

I can't disagree with any of the points you raise, and must admit that I've been a little off target lately.

X...

As tough as it is to admit, you have rasied some valid points as well.



My apologies to you and anyone else

mai pen rai

No problem. I fly off the handle when some things I see as important in defining me are challenged or mocked ... more easily depending on my mood of the moment. I generally regret it and it often comes as I spend too much time on the message boards, so it’s undoubtedly a sign I need to walk away from the computer more often.

As I've tried to say... probably not too successfully ... we all have different tastes in terms of who we see as beautiful & appealing. Those differences shouldn't be a point of division.

Yes, there is probably something dehumanizing about the whole situation in which we all participate and which we may sometimes fail to see. I try to do whatever I can to make the guys feel good about themselves and to treat them as more than just a beautiful face with penis attached ... but I suppose sometimes that is difficult to do when you take someone off for a couple of hours with a limited, single objective.

My recent tour of local gogo bars trying to find someone who really got my pulse (among other things) pumping, was pretty much a stroll through the meat market. Although I nearly abandoned the effort, just as I was about to give up, I came across my Muay Thai type. He is truly beautiful on numerous levels ... but I admit he will never be more than a weekly visitor. I treat him well. I pay him well. He enjoys coming here because of the money and the night away from the bar. He is unequivocally a "man," but he performs the needful with an ease that suggests (as Cat said) that he is sexual and enjoys sex, even if he might enjoy it more with someone else.

He took me to see some of his friends in a sexy show … it was his idea, not mine. There was some nudity, some very brief fellatio, naked painted bodies writhing in black light followed by a shower together…

He seemed to think it was quite good and obviously didn’t see it in terms of exploitation. I agreed with him when he asked me if I liked it, but I felt sad more than anything. Obviously the participants did it for the extra cash and felt uncomfortable. I suppose it’s no more nor less dehumanizing than traipsing off to some stranger’s hotel room for sex, but watching it and the collection of men & women watching it, I felt like I didn’t want to visit anymore gogo bars for quite some time.

So in some respects you were right. Watching that show was like looking at myself in a mirror and being somewhat disgusted at what I saw and when I came home & read you message I was probably reacting as much to what I was thinking about myself as to what you were saying.

But he of the Muay Thai type called this afternoon and will visit this evening and my long term friend arrives this weekend. There are many reasons to feel in a good mood.

As Thais frequently say … at least to babbling farang … “You Tink Too Much!”
Too much “tinking” is always a mood killer.

And I'm not old and fat like X

And so the only reason you pay for sex is because basically you're a philanthropist?

[Dodger]

I think a person who has the ability to look at himself in the mirror has substance, regardless of his interpretation of the reflection.

[Wesley]

Hummmmm yes much think to much. I have to say that to my bf. Lucky me, just got back my 6 month HIV test and again am healthy and ready for another relationship instead of a line of boys. As to X he is not the asshole we think. He just has an abrasive way of putting things. Dodger and Smiles are still living in the puritan age of ethics. Something I have definitely over come but, am drawn to one guy invariably no matter how many guys I can have.

Wes

[Khor tose]

I think a person who has the ability to look at himself in the mirror has substance, regardless of his interpretation of the reflection.

I could not agree more. I know I need a reality jolt now and then. Being able to change your mind or atitude is a sign that you are not an old solidified fart. Hell the main reason I pick friends is to have someone who will tell me what I need to hear, and not what I want to hear. I enjoy post by both you and X, so please keep posting,

As an aside, this is why Pattaya Passion does not really reflect human reality. If we are all nice to each other, we will never learn a damn thing, as we will never be challenged in our assumptions.

[thrillbill]

Well Dodger,I agree with most of what you say BUT... What would become of all the straight boys if us gay men never offed them? The straight guy I took was very bored when I saw him,but was ecstatic to see me the next time I came to his bar.He gave me his phone number and invited me to his home town. Of course it was because I tip well,I gave him 2,000 baht the first time and 3,000 baht the last time. I know he didnt enjoy the sex but he enjoyed the money,the reason hes there. I know the next guy probably wont tip him as well as I did,and he will be disapointed and maybe leave the bar scene,but I feel I did the right thing by tipping him well. btw,I blew half a million baht renovating my studio there so tipping well for a boy who doesnt like anal sex was good in my book. I know mant will say Im ruining it for the rest by over tipping.Too bad,Im making up for the cheaoskates out there. I never deluded myself into thinking the boy was enamored with a fifty year old man.

I can't have good sex unless I know my play-companion is enjoying it also...not just for the money. If I have to pay way over the norm for someone to have sex with me, I would rather watch a porn movie and w/o. Maybe I am lucky but I have had commercial boys not even charge me. I don't want someone to be "estatic" just because I am a big tipper. (I'm not young either, but do take care of myself.)

[rocket]

I dont usually pay way over the norm,I just felt sorry for this guy because it was his first time with a falang and I put him through some pain.Like I said,I prefer gay guys from the beer bars for long time,but having sex with a good looking straight guy was enjoyable. Change things up a bit.