[homintern]

There's a lovely quotation in Maureen Dowd's commentary in today's New York Times - "The people who want English to be the official language of the United States are uncomfortable with their leaders being fluent in it." She's quoting Jed Barlet. That's right - it's a dream sequence featuring a conversation between the West Wing's President and Obama. Nevertheless, amusing. Here's another great excerpt -

GET ANGRIER! Call them liars, because that’s what they are. Sarah Palin didn’t say “thanks but no thanks” to the Bridge to Nowhere. She just said “Thanks.” You were raised by a single mother on food stamps — where does a guy with eight houses who was legacied into Annapolis get off calling you an elitist? And by the way, if you do nothing else, take that word back. Elite is a good word, it means well above average. I’d ask them what their problem is with excellence. While you’re at it, I want the word “patriot” back. McCain can say that the transcendent issue of our time is the spread of Islamic fanaticism or he can choose a running mate who doesn’t know the Bush doctrine from the Monroe Doctrine, but he can’t do both at the same time and call it patriotic. They have to lie — the truth isn’t their friend right now. Get angry. Mock them mercilessly; they’ve earned it. McCain decried agents of intolerance, then chose a running mate who had to ask if she was allowed to ban books from a public library. It’s not bad enough she thinks the planet Earth was created in six days 6,000 years ago complete with a man, a woman and a talking snake, she wants schools to teach the rest of our kids to deny geology, anthropology, archaeology and common sense too? It’s not bad enough she’s forcing her own daughter into a loveless marriage to a teenage hood, she wants the rest of us to guide our daughters in that direction too? It’s not enough that a woman shouldn’t have the right to choose, it should be the law of the land that she has to carry and deliver her rapist’s baby too? I don’t know whether or not Governor Palin has the tenacity of a pit bull, but I know for sure she’s got the qualifications of one. And you’re worried about seeming angry? You could eat their lunch, make them cry and tell their mamas about it and God himself would call it restrained. There are times when you are simply required to be impolite. There are times when condescension is called for!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/opini ... orkin.html

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Bugger them !!

let's reclaim English and take it back to where it belongs-Ireland !

[Henry Cate]

Due to the hegemony of the British Empire, closely followed by the hegemony of the United States.

Somehow, I never see postings wondering whether (S A Y) Aussies or New Zealanders speak English.

Nope! It's all anti-Americanism, all the time.

To me it sounds like a bunch of Palestinian biddies "discussing" Israel. "Oh, it's bad!" "Yes, I agree with you, it's so BAD!!" "Yes, the Jooz are occupying our homeland!" "Yes, NUKE them, those frucking fascists!"

The discussion of America on this board: same same. "Oh, it's so bad!" "O, them frucking fascists!"

The fact (FACT) that 350,000 American boys gave their lives defending Europe (a shocking fact) is completely overlooked (an even more shocking fact).

Their graves are in Europe.

But some dudes want to play Amateur Linguist, and do the old anti-American waltz. Even though they may come from a nation of sheep-fruckers, who can barely speak the Queen's English themselves, it's open season on America.

Good luck with that.

[cottmann]

The fact (FACT) that 350,000 American boys gave their lives defending Europe (a shocking fact) is completely overlooked (an even more shocking fact). Their graves are in Europe.

Wrong on three or four counts, Henry.

First, the US total war dead in both World War I and World War II was in excess of 530,000 but, second, a considerable portion of those lost their lives in the Asian-Pacific war theaters, defending American interests in, e.g., The Philippines, etc..

Third, if you have ever visited any war cemetery in Europe, then you would know that no nation's war graves are overlooked. See, e.g., http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,214 ... 72,00.html and http://www.abmc.gov/home.php for examples. The sites of the cemeteries and the use of the land has been granted in perpetuity by the host countries free of charge or taxation.

Fourth, a considerable number of the bodies of World War USA dead service personnel have been repatriated, in line with Pentagon policy, and do not have graves in Europe.

Finally, please do you research on the reasons why the US entered either or both wars before trotting out the standard response that the US was 'defending' Europe again (e.g., http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_and_why_d ... orld_War_1. and http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_the_U ... orld_War_2). The reasons for the USA has as much (if not more) to do with defending American interests than in defending Europe. You might also check the contribution of the Soviet Union to defeating the Axis powers - it was very much greater than that of the USA. One scholar has written of the US contribution that, “not to denigrate the contribution of American forces,“ “they were simply unprepared early on, came into the European war too late, and were preoccupied with the war against Japan. The two tasks were too much,” Norman Davies, Wiktor Weintraub Memorial lecture, sponsored by the Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies, Harvard University, September 2007, see http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/200 ... howon.html

[homintern]

Henry will soon be trotting out one of his standard arguments (if he hasn't done so already; I have him on {Ignore}) - the Enlightenment in Europe lead directly to Hitler's concentration camps, and was therefore A Bad Thing. That little gem dates from when he was writing as justanarab; if that doesn't persuade you to have him on {Ignore} I guess nothing will!

[Marsilius]

The fact (FACT) that 350,000 American boys gave their lives defending Europe (a shocking fact) is completely overlooked (an even more shocking fact).

America was not defending Europe. She was defending herself. America counter-declared war on Germany because the Germans declared war on America first. Invading Europe was directly attacking a power that had declared war on it - not some sort of altruistic "defense of Europe".

[Henry Cate]

Well, really. If I have any say in the matter, it will never happen again.

After all, in the strategic long term, America's interest is to keep Europeans fighting amongst themselves, something which they have shown a great ability to do. It also involves keeping Asians fighting among themselves -- and they're pretty good at doing that, too.

That way, nobody will even think of building great ships and armadas to cross the Great Oceans and invade US. :-)

The one "international" concept which I do support is -- not the UN, not the EU, and definitely not NATO. But I do find the concept of "the Anglosphere" to be interesting. That would be an alliance, or grouping, of the countries which speak English. Great Britain and America, obviously. Australia. Canada. New Zealand. Many common interests, many common beliefs, and a common language (despite sniping from ignorant peasants). Yes, I freely admit that sitting a Texas cowpuncher down to chat with a working-class Liverpudlian would be an interesting experiment -- and why hasn't anyone tried it? -- but, in the sphere of diplomacy, that don't matter a bit.

[fattman]

The Texas cowpuncher/Liverpudlian experiment was tried recently. Two black girls (or for our American friends "African Britons") were sent to a Texas ranch to raise, slaughter and then eat a cow, in the form of a burger. They were scared stiff of the walking meat, but managed to gain some respect from a couple of so-called Burger goumets.

America never seemed to have recovered from the civil war and is beset with infighting itself.

[Chao Na]

If you're looking for a country with no infighting, where every heart and soul shines in unison...North Korea is lovely this time of year.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Due to the hegemony of the British Empire, closely followed by the hegemony of the United States.

Somehow, I never see postings wondering whether (S A Y) Aussies or New Zealanders speak English.

Nope! It's all anti-Americanism, all the time.

To me it sounds like a bunch of Palestinian biddies "discussing" Israel. "Oh, it's bad!" "Yes, I agree with you, it's so BAD!!" "Yes, the Jooz are occupying our homeland!" "Yes, NUKE them, those frucking fascists!"

The discussion of America on this board: same same. "Oh, it's so bad!" "O, them frucking fascists!"

The fact (FACT) that 350,000 American boys gave their lives defending Europe (a shocking fact) is completely overlooked (an even more shocking fact).

Their graves are in Europe.

But some dudes want to play Amateur Linguist, and do the old anti-American waltz. Even though they may come from a nation of sheep-fruckers, who can barely speak the Queen's English themselves, it's open season on America.

Good luck with that.

No..it's no more overlooked than the 60 million Russians lives lost (who largely defeated the German army), or the 1 million Commonwealth lives or the fact that if the USA hadn't entered WW2..not that it had a choice after Pearl Harbour..it would have been facing a Europe dominated by Russia. Nor is it overlooked that George Bush's grandfather funded the Nazi Party and held Adolph Hitler's private savings in a New York bank until 1943.

it wasn't just all about you, you know !

[z909]

Well, really. If I have any say in the matter, it will never happen again.

After all, in the strategic long term, America's interest is to keep Europeans fighting amongst themselves, something which they have shown a great ability to do. It also involves keeping Asians fighting among themselves -- and they're pretty good at doing that, too.

That way, nobody will even think of building great ships and armadas to cross the Great Oceans and invade US. :-)

The one "international" concept which I do support is -- not the UN, not the EU, and definitely not NATO. But I do find the concept of "the Anglosphere" to be interesting. That would be an alliance, or grouping, of the countries which speak English. Great Britain and America, obviously. Australia. Canada. New Zealand. Many common interests, many common beliefs, and a common language (despite sniping from ignorant peasants). Yes, I freely admit that sitting a Texas cowpuncher down to chat with a working-class Liverpudlian would be an interesting experiment -- and why hasn't anyone tried it? -- but, in the sphere of diplomacy, that don't matter a bit.

Yet again not much accuracy in the above post.
Europeans have been fighting amongst themselves for hundreds & probably thousands of years before the US was "discovered".
NATO is probably the most important international organisation for our security & the US plays the leading role in this organisation.
However, we should remember the US was nowhere to be seen in 1939 so countries like the UK & France should be maintaining military spending at a level which will make the Russians think twice about any further invasions.