[thaiguest]

Just got back from the Bacon exhibition at Tate Britain. Gobsmacked. Described by some as the most important British artist since Turner.

Not possible because he was Irish.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Just got back from the Bacon exhibition at Tate Britain. Gobsmacked. Described by some as the most important British artist since Turner.

Not possible because he was Irish.

I was going to point out that as well but thought it might spoil the poor dear's day. Afterall-who else can they claim-they dreary old Turner and those boring dull scenes of the Thames , or that silly Tracey Emin (mind you she's Turkish) or the perhaps Damien Hirst and those silly Saatchi brothers who splash out fortunes for some old skull probably dug up in the local cemetery and splattered with sequins.

You must feel sorry for the Brits-all great literature has been gifted to them from the Irish and what do we get in return ?. Agatha Christie and Jackie Collins !

[homintern]

You must feel sorry for the Brits-all great literature has been gifted to them from the Irish and what do we get in return ?. Agatha Christie and Jackie Collins !

I have no time for that "great" Irish novelist Charles Dickens, myself

[Marsilius]

Just got back from the Bacon exhibition at Tate Britain. Gobsmacked. Described by some as the most important British artist since Turner.

Not possible because he was Irish.

Ireland is one of the "British Isles". Ipso facto, Irish people are "British" - as are the English, the Welsh and the Scots, begorrah!

[555]

Normally, I hate to cite wikipaedia but they start his entry with

"Francis Bacon (28 October 1909 – 28 April 1992) was an Irish-born British figurative painter. He was a collateral descendant of the Elizabethan philosopher Francis Bacon. "

The leaflet given by the entrance to the exhibition, by a stunningly cute East Asian, states he was born in Dublin of English parents.

1909 was before 1921.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Just got back from the Bacon exhibition at Tate Britain. Gobsmacked. Described by some as the most important British artist since Turner.

Not possible because he was Irish.

Ireland is one of the "British Isles". Ipso facto, Irish people are "British" - as are the English, the Welsh and the Scots, begorrah!

I think the people of the Irish Free State make take issue with that. Either way I wouldn't take a walk through the streets of Londonderry or Armagh and announce the same-unless you take some large bodyguards.

I'm surprised Homintern has no time for the great writer Charles Dickens who is descended from the famous Irish clan of the O'Dickens and from where his undoubted wonderful writing talent comes from. Particularly as Charlie had a penchant for writing about young boys going through a hard time in life and often being on the receiving end of a good lashing..right up Homi's street.

[homintern]

Particularly as Charlie had a penchant for writing about young boys going through a hard time in life and often being on the receiving end of a good lashing..right up Homi's street.

Weren't they organised by an Irish paedophile = O'Fagin?

[fattman]

I think the people of the Irish Free State make take issue with that.

Bejeezus and there was I tinking that we'd made it to the republic.

[thaiguest]

Just got back from the Bacon exhibition at Tate Britain. Gobsmacked. Described by some as the most important British artist since Turner.

Not possible because he was Irish.

Ireland is one of the "British Isles". Ipso facto, Irish people are "British" - as are the English, the Welsh and the Scots, begorrah!

The Irish were dubbed British from the top down in the same way as the people of India for a time ceased to be Indians and were instead dubbed 'subjects of the British Empire' and in the same way as Russia recently claimed large tracts of the planet Mars. But the Irish or the Indians or even the Martians were never consulted on this.
We have many examples of 'British' Irish eg. The Duke of Wellington, Edmund Burke et al but also at least one example of 'Welsh' Irish ibso est St. Patrick.
Seriously though, if you wish to see the deconstructed and reassembled studio of Francis Bacon you have to come to his native city-Dublin. What means this 'unpatriotic' bequest on the part of the artist?

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Just got back from the Bacon exhibition at Tate Britain. Gobsmacked. Described by some as the most important British artist since Turner.

Not possible because he was Irish.

Ireland is one of the "British Isles". Ipso facto, Irish people are "British" - as are the English, the Welsh and the Scots, begorrah!

The Irish were dubbed British from the top down in the same way as the people of India for a time ceased to be Indians and were instead dubbed 'subjects of the British Empire' and in the same way as Russia recently claimed large tracts of the planet Mars. But the Irish or the Indians or even the Martians were never consulted on this.
We have many examples of 'British' Irish eg. The Duke of Wellington, Edmund Burke et al but also at least one example of 'Welsh' Irish ibso est St. Patrick.
Seriously though, if you wish to see the deconstructed and reassembled studio of Francis Bacon you have to come to his native city-Dublin. What means this 'unpatriotic' bequest on the part of the artist?

and let's not forget that other great Irish artist who has enriched the fabric of British cultural life-Boy George !

[Marsilius]

Just got back from the Bacon exhibition at Tate Britain. Gobsmacked. Described by some as the most important British artist since Turner.

Not possible because he was Irish.

Ireland is one of the "British Isles". Ipso facto, Irish people are "British" - as are the English, the Welsh and the Scots, begorrah!

The Irish were dubbed British from the top down in the same way as the people of India for a time ceased to be Indians and were instead dubbed 'subjects of the British Empire' and in the same way as Russia recently claimed large tracts of the planet Mars. But the Irish or the Indians or even the Martians were never consulted on this.

You are confusing geography with history/politics.

"The British Isles" is a universally accepted geographical designation (with no political/historical connotations) for the two large land masses - "Great Britain" (comprising England, Wales and Scotland) and "Ireland" (comprising the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland) - found in the ocean off the north west coast of the European mainland.

"Great Britain" is merely a geographical term for the larger of those two islands. The designation "Great" is geographical (not, as erroneously often thought, a political assertion of grandiosity), and originated a thousand years ago or more to distinguish the larger home of the Ancient Britons (the island of Great Britain) from the tribe's smaller home (Britanny in France - ever noticed the similarity of the name? It was the original "Little Britain", in fact!) For more on this, see Professor Denys Hay "The Emergence of an Idea: Europe" (Edinburgh University Publications) - Appendix: The use of the term "Great Britain" in the Middle Ages.

The political entity of the UK - "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" thus makes perfect geographical sense too.

[thaiguest]

Just got back from the Bacon exhibition at Tate Britain. Gobsmacked. Described by some as the most important British artist since Turner.

Not possible because he was Irish.

Ireland is one of the "British Isles". Ipso facto, Irish people are "British" - as are the English, the Welsh and the Scots, begorrah!

The Irish were dubbed British from the top down in the same way as the people of India for a time ceased to be Indians and were instead dubbed 'subjects of the British Empire' and in the same way as Russia recently claimed large tracts of the planet Mars. But the Irish or the Indians or even the Martians were never consulted on this.

You are confusing geography with history/politics.

"The British Isles" is a universally accepted geographical designation (with no political/historical connotations) for the two large land masses - "Great Britain" (comprising England, Wales and Scotland) and "Ireland" (comprising the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland) - found in the ocean off the north west coast of the European mainland.

"Great Britain" is merely a geographical term for the larger of those two islands. The designation "Great" is geographical (not, as erroneously often thought, a political assertion of grandiosity), and originated a thousand years ago or more to distinguish the larger home of the Ancient Britons (the island of Great Britain) from the tribe's smaller home (Britanny in France - ever noticed the similarity of the name? It was the original "Little Britain", in fact!) For more on this, see Professor Denys Hay "The Emergence of an Idea: Europe" (Edinburgh University Publications) - Appendix: The use of the term "Great Britain" in the Middle Ages.

The political entity of the UK - "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" thus makes perfect geographical sense too.

I don't feel confused at all.
I know of 2 famous Bacons. One of them was Irish. Get over it.

[Marsilius]

You may not subjectively feel confused - but sadly, judged objectively, you are.

No-one denies that the Irish are a race. So presumably "your" Bacon was Irish. No problem.

However, whether he was living in the island of Ireland or the island that comprises England, Wales and Scotland, he was still living in the collective grouping of the "British Isles" and may hence also be correctly described as "British".

In exactly the same way, we could, in fact, take the argument a stage further and describe him as a "European".

None of the descriptions "Irish", "British" or "European" is incorrect. It all just depends on the perspective that one adopts.

[555]

Sorry Thaiquest. You are simply wrong. Francis Bacon, the famous painter was descended from a brother or sister of the other famous indisputably English essayist, Francis Bacon. Being born of English parents in Dublin before the creation of the Irish Republic, in no sense makes him Irish. The only famous Irish bacon that I know of, sizzles when cooked.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

look, if you try to claim Oscar Wilde as one of yours there will serious trouble.