Another student of mine was busted two days ago for the crime of driving a motorcycle while being Shan.  The bike was seized and impounded while he went looking for the 2,000 baht fine.

This is the second time in two weeks.  The current government in Chiang Mai hates the Shan.

What license did he have?

Met a Shan friend at the Friday Shan market in Chiang Mai. She had also had her bike taken away and had to pay Bht2000 to get it back. If she had any sense, Bht500 'Tea money' would have sorted the matter and saved her Bht1500. Shan without papers cannot register a bike in their own name and have to use someone else, which makes them vulnerable to all sorts of scams.

The way in which police haunt Wat Pa Pao and Wat Ku Tao on Shan festival days is shameful. They extort money from those who can least afford it and cannot complain.... may they rot in hell.

Henry Cate wrote:

Another student of mine was busted two days ago for the crime of driving a motorcycle while being Shan.  The bike was seized and impounded while he went looking for the 2,000 baht fine.

This is the second time in two weeks.  The current government in Chiang Mai hates the Shan.

In Japan, it is the crime of riding a bicycle while being gaijin. One of my acquaintances is stopped almost daily, often by the same police officer, to check either his alien registration card or whether the bicycle is registered to him (all bicycles have to be registered with the local town hall). In other cases, it is part of young officers' kunren or training. Foreigners are often used here are 'guinea pigs' for training officials, as with the Narita Airport drugs affairs some weeks ago. It is for much the same reason Shan are hassled - because the officials can do it without any come-back - though here no tea money is involved.

The crime was driving without a license, wasn't it?  Not "driving while being Shan".  Come on, tell the truth.

What possible reason would I have for posting lies here?

The average Thai person caught driving without a license pays about 400 baht in "tea money" or genuine fine.  Same thing for no helmet or not wearing a seatbelt in a car.

As I faithfully reported, and as has been verified by another poster already, the fine FOR SHAN ONLY is 2,000 baht.  And again, this has happened to TWO of my students within the past two weeks.  The police are not in a mood to discuss "tea money."  They seize and impound the bike, and it is a genuine document-laden hassle to get it back while paying the two-thousand baht fine.  The only known "work-around" is to get some Thai person to appear and go through the hassle for you.  In this case, the fine is "only" 1,500 baht.

How are we to explain all this?  Maybe as follows: the new, Toxin-oriented government is "populist."  And a lot of Thai people dislike the Shan immigrants intensely.  This should not be too surprising.  Lots of Americans hate Mexicans, and lots of Germans hate Turks.  And these Thai people get especially upset if the immigrant seems to be doing better than they are: a motorcycle is a pretty big deal for the average resident of Chiang Mai.

If the facts of the matter contradict your theory, it is time to get yourself a new theory.

cottmann wrote:

Henry Cate wrote:

Another student of mine was busted two days ago for the crime of driving a motorcycle while being Shan.  The bike was seized and impounded while he went looking for the 2,000 baht fine.

This is the second time in two weeks.  The current government in Chiang Mai hates the Shan.

In Japan, it is the crime of riding a bicycle while being gaijin. One of my acquaintances is stopped almost daily, often by the same police officer, to check either his alien registration card or whether the bicycle is registered to him (all bicycles have to be registered with the local town hall). In other cases, it is part of young officers' kunren or training. Foreigners are often used here are 'guinea pigs' for training officials, as with the Narita Airport drugs affairs some weeks ago. It is for much the same reason Shan are hassled - because the officials can do it without any come-back - though here no tea money is involved.

When living in Japan I was never stopped or harassed whilst on my bicycyle or in any other circumstances.
This includes whilst looking for street prostitutes in the gay area area which was often patrolled by police cars.
If your colleague is stopped daily by the same officer, he should complain.

Did he have a license to ride a motorbike or not?

Haven't we been round this mulberry bush before?

homintern is on your IGNORE list.

why is some guy well over 40 a *Lad*?

well I do know a waiter formerly of Cafe Royal
who drove for more than two years
with no license plate on his motorbike

When a policeman attempts to extort money from a Thai or a farang, he knows that there is some chance that the person can fight back and moderates his demands accordingly. When dealing with Shan people, and there may be as many as a million living illegally in Northern Thailand, he knows that they dare do nothing other than pay up.... or else. These people, not being Thai citizens, are harassed at every move and there are many Thais who have still not forgotten 1767CE.

It is not possible for a Shan person (here and in future I'm talking about those coming from Shan State and not those born in Thailand) either to get a driving licence or to register a motorbike. Often it would be impossible to get to work without such transport so they have a Catch-22 situation. Take away the Shan from Northern Thailand and there would be no construction done and no restaurants open. I know of one restaurant in CM where of the 40 or so waiting staff only one is not Shan.... and she's Karen. Every minute they are late for work, they are fined one Baht and have to work 12 or more hours a day for peanuts. The owner takes the tips! This is not untypical of the exploitation they experience at the hands of ordinary Thais.

Couples who have fled the dreadful regime in Yangon face considerable problems when it comes to educating their children, and education seems to be greatly valued by the Shan, since they are not entitled to attend Thai school. Instead the boys and girls must be sent back to Shan to live with grandparents or uncles and aunts. As a consequence parents go many years without seeing their children, but work long hours to send the funds back home for their upkeep. I've seen the places where these people have to live and they defy description but, in spite of all their troubles and hassles, I have yet to meet any Shan who do not say..... 'It's still better than living under Than Shwe's rule'.

The Shan, Karen and other refugees make a considerable contribution to the Thai economy, they are not work-shy like some of our European immigrants, but this is not acknowledged by the government. The UNHCR does not recognise them as refugees, presumably for political reasons, and thus they do not receive the protection that such status would afford.

Sorry for such a long post but it's a subject very dear to my heart.

Yin som yiow ka!

z909 wrote:

cottmann wrote:

Henry Cate wrote:

Another student of mine was busted two days ago for the crime of driving a motorcycle while being Shan.  The bike was seized and impounded while he went looking for the 2,000 baht fine.

This is the second time in two weeks.  The current government in Chiang Mai hates the Shan.

In Japan, it is the crime of riding a bicycle while being gaijin. One of my acquaintances is stopped almost daily, often by the same police officer, to check either his alien registration card or whether the bicycle is registered to him (all bicycles have to be registered with the local town hall). In other cases, it is part of young officers' kunren or training. Foreigners are often used here are 'guinea pigs' for training officials, as with the Narita Airport drugs affairs some weeks ago. It is for much the same reason Shan are hassled - because the officials can do it without any come-back - though here no tea money is involved.

When living in Japan I was never stopped or harassed whilst on my bicycyle or in any other circumstances.
This includes whilst looking for street prostitutes in the gay area area which was often patrolled by police cars.
If your colleague is stopped daily by the same officer, he should complain.

I've never been stopped by a police officer in the more than seven years I've been here either, but I was given the full luggage and pat-down search by Customs in 2005 when I arrived at the new Chubu International Airport on its opening day in 2005 - as part of the training of the new Customs Officials. I was the only non-Japanese on the plane, and the only person to be so searched.

If you lived in Japan for any time, surely you know that a gaikokujin complaining to the police about police harassment is like pissing in the wind - you get splashback!

Life's tough when you're an illegal alien tooling around on a motorcycle without a license.  I suggest you try the same thing as a farang and see if you get off for cheaper than the Shan do.

billyhouston wrote:

... there are many Thais who have still not forgotten 1767CE . . . Sorry for such a long post but it's a subject very dear to my heart ... "

A bleeding heart is all well and good, but what exactly is the (apparently) unforgotten 1767CE?
Little you say in your long post on this issue is of any value until the Board Dregs here are able to be in-the-know as to what you are talking about, non-Orwellian-wise.

Cheers ...

1767. Destruction of Ayutthya by the Burmese Army. Do keep up Smiles(oh ok, I had to google!)