[homintern]

American tourist arrested

There should be more of it

[Thaiquila]

American tourist arrested

There should be more of it

Americans specifically?

[I-Nam]

That is total BS! I have met Thais who can prove to me they are 25 who look 16. Not at all uncommon. If you really think you can easily tell between a 16 year old and an 18 year old, you are very deluded. I dare say most of the people on this board would agree with me on at least this one point.
And yes, I do have sympathy for a person who is trying to be lawful and is LIED to by bar managers and workers, putting the farang in mortal danger and ruining his life, where the consequences to the bar managers and owners are basically nada! I don't understand how you couldn't have sympathy for someone suckered like that.

While I agree completely that there are 15 year old who can pass for 22 and vice versa, I have little sympathy for Dorothy for two reasons. First, the bar he chose to off someone from. Its notorious for underage workers. I hate to give him credit, but, anyone remember LMTU saying "if you dare to go into that bar'? Second, after offing from this bar he chose a short time room at the bar rather than his hotel or condo. This leads me to believe that he knew the boy was underage. He used the bar's short time room because he knew the boy was underage. Play with fire and you get burned.

[Thaiquila]

I was talking generally.
I agree this guy sounds guilty for all the reasons you gave. However, I have no doubt there are people sitting in the monkey house who were fooled into doing something they had no intention of doing.

[homintern]

Play with fire and you get burned.

Play with fire and you run the risk of getting burned. That's why it continues. People never think it's going to happen to them - and usually it doesn't

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[macaroni21]

I don't know the details of this case but I know for a fact that it can easily happen, and I do feel sorry for the customer and the boys involved. Sounds like the guy was very unlucky to get busted in a short-time room. Seems to me its a safer experience at the bar rather than taking a guy to your hotel. Being that TIT, I wonder if there's a story behind this story. Why that particular bar?
Dboy

It strikes me that there's a reluctance to believe that the accused Ronald Sims was knowlingly engaging someone under 18. Why the reluctance, I don't quite understand.

I once overheard a situation where the mamasan strongly advised a client to use the in-house short-time room which at first I thought was merely for the bar to make a bit more money, but when I saw the boy - who looked underaged to me (and I can tell the difference between a 15 year-old and a 20 year -old) - I immediately knew why.

That Ronald Sims was using an in-house short-time room is to me a sign that he knew he was engaging in sex with someone underaged, someone who might not pass hotel security.

[boygeenyus]

That he was spending time in a notorious pedo bar, where they have boys clearly under 13, is enough for me. Any normal person would have walked in, seen what was happening inside, and walked straight back out again.

[pete1969]

Frankly. many bars will employ boys under 18, even the ones that all us think are very respected. I've seen it time and time again here in the Paradise Complex. I've had bar owners themselves tell me a boy was 17 (one told me that about a boy I wanted to off). I've know five or six boys that have worked here for at least three years that have told me they were going to be celebrating their 18th or 19th birthdays soon (you do the math).

This is endemic in LOS in gay bars. With the large, well respected bars, obviously they are not going to send off an underage worker and try to catch a customer in any sort of sting. These bars (in Patong Beach--every one of them) also pay large amounts of money to the police so that they won't come under too much scrutiny for a number of violations. So, we will never hear of them being busted in one of these sort of stings unless for some reason they fall into serious arrears with their bribes or piss off the wrong person.

It seems to me there are several things one can do to protect one's self:

1. Never ever use a short time room unless you are very, very sure of a boy's age.
2. Try to take off boys from a well reputed bar (the bigger and the richer the owner, the better). At least then, even if the boy is 16 or 17, your chances of being part of a sting are almost zill. Don't go into bars that have a reputation for employing those under 18. It is a major reason I will not go into Mamasan bar here in Patong (formerly Uncle Charlie Boys). It is also another reason I off almost all my boys from one of the bars owned by Bon, Tangmo, or reccomended by one of my long time friends.
3. Look at a boys ID, study the photograph very well, and use a hotel that collects IDs from guests. My hotel does, but it still doesn't mean much as I could probably come in with a goat, two chickens, and six ten-year olds, tell the night clerk that they had all forgotten their IDs, and all he would do is smile and tell me "have a nice evening."
4. Never, ever take off a free lancer that can't produce an ID or even if he can, if he looks at all under 18 (but gosh, it is often hard to tell).
5. Develop a taste for obviously older guys. If you like guys who look younger and have smaller bodies, then your chances of breaking the law are much greater. It is hard to tell if someone is 16 or 18, but much easier to know if someone is 18 or 23. You can often also just assume if a boy tells you he is 18, then he is probably younger (not always, but often enough). Few Thai boys will ever add any more than they have to to their age, so if they say they are 19 or higher, odds are they are telling you true.
6. Find (buy) some Thai friends and take one or two along when you go drinking/offing boys. Their mere presence will often keep the more unscrupulous from taking advantage of you, and they can navigate a number of tricky situations for you.

Probably many on this board have inadvertently had sex with an 16 or 17 year old while in LOS. No matter what precautions you take, they are too many of them working in just about every gay establishment here. I find myself following rule #5 more and more, and #6 has become an absolute rule for me when I am out drinking in new environments. The obviously younger boys are very nice, but no matter how safe I might feel, I have zero desire to take any risks with this particular law governing sex with minors.

Pete

[GWMinUS]

Three years ago I was in Phuket.
Offed a handsome young man from Tangmo.
Back at the hotel the security man looked at his ID and took me aside.
Told me he was underage, only 17, and said it was up to me if I took him upstairs.
I sent the Guy away, without a tip, after having the security man explain to him in Thai why I was not continuing the evening.
The next evening I stopped by Tangmo and told the Mamasan about my experience.
His response was NOTHING.
I told the Mamasan I was very concerned and would caution my friends about his bar.
Now that was three years ago, so I cannot say the current policy.
But Farang beware!!!

[Pearl of the Orient]

about the vast majority of this activity which is extremely common amongst the local population, always has been and excludes foreigners except when it is used for profit.

Cheer for the man who has been caught of it makes you feel morally superior but don't kid yorself that it's anything to do with enforcing the law. It's called PR and there could be may reasons it may have happened..to give the appearance that something is being done..or it may be simply to give other bar owners a financial advantage.

Those screeching the loudest should read the full story again..apart from being caught in a flea infested room which means f**k all unless you have a gutter press metality and you believe it makes the story somehow more sordid..the lad's age was 16. If it had been New Mexico in the US, London, Italy , Rome or countless other countries no crime would have been committed.

It's about time Farang visitors got over their Western superiority mentality that leads them to believe that Thais somehow mould their activities because of them.

[GWMinUS]

HAHAHA
You are correct.
Recently a man flew out from Atlanta to "see" a young man (16) here in Santa Fe.
They had met on the internet...
The young man's father learned of the scheduled meeting at a local hotel and sent in the police!!!
They arrested the older man.
But then the young man said it was all consentual. He had invited the man to come "visit".
So the police admitted they had no cause for action and dropped the investigation.
But then that is New Mexico...

[Thaiquila]

A lot of good points here.
Bottom line: keep away from the Thai chicken!
Of course, taking off at one of the more notorious dens is a strong sign of real guilt, though there is nothing illegal about having a drink at such a place for your sociology thesis.
Of course, there is hypocrisy in Thai enforcement.
Of course, stories about sex tourists being busted makes great press.
I agree if you are into the cute small guy look, you are probably lucky if isn't your face on the tabloids. It is easy to be fooled. Of course, and this should be emphasized, there are indeed underage sex workers in more "respectable" bars, most definitely near so called Boyztown.

[Doug]

Given that: this Diamond bar obviously can't advertise; nor would they be welcome hosting a PGF fund raiser to boost their visability; the owner is reputed to be one in authority; and operating a gogo bar requires many customers to be profitable.

Would it be stretching the imagination too much to suggest that a high profile arrest reported locally and abroad could be a planned advertising strategy to increase the bar's profile to those with an interest in underage sex? I mean we now have the name of the bar and it's location and it's activities well publicised.

I would think a better deterrent would be to follow the trial of the accused and showcase the life of those convicted. I know there have been a few such reports but too often any reporting ends with the high profile arrest.

[colmx]

I've been reading these messageboards for the lst 6-7 years or so...

It seems to me that this bar is raided quite at least every 1.5 years and some unsuspecting farang is caught in the short time rooms...

A few weeks later the bar re-opens under a new name (amigo, Leo, Diamond etc) and its business as usual... The press has its field day. The police have their photo-op. The Bar owner has another year to peddle his trade...

And its only the farang who suffers... locked up in Banglamung Prison for a few years...

(I''m not excusing his actions -- Just saying he was unlucky to be caught up in this PR stunt)