Hi, everyone!<br>
<br>
I have been reading this forum for some time now, and find some of the posts really interesting and sometimes very amuzing.<br>
<br>
I am 36 year old norwegian, professional experienced Hotel Manager, seriously looking in to buying or leasing a small guesthouse (10 to 20 rooms) in Phuket or Pattaya.  I am gay, but the operation can be straight, mix or gay oriented.  I have never before worked in Thailand, but have vactioned extensively and have many friends and colleagues there as well.  When researching for my project I experience a problem, though... No one seems to be able to give me a straight (or serious/honest?) answer when I try to establish what the average honest occupancy rate is for centrally located guesthouse operations in these two areas for low and high season.  Even the tourism officals give very conflicting answers between themselves.<br>
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So many of you here seem to possess a wealth of information so I turn to you.  Do any of you have any knowledge of average occupancy rates for guesthouses in Pattaya and Phuket?  The guesthouses I am currently looking at are all quite high standard with designer type rooms, aircon, minibar, telephone, satellite tv, private bath.<br>
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I would be most grateful for any assistance on this and even general comments in regards to operating a guesthouse.<br>
<br>
Thanks a lot!

<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=smiles2@sawatdeeforum>Smiles2</A> at: 11/22/04 10:21 am<br></i>

Good idea bkk gwm.  Let's let it run it's course as far as replies are concerned, and then it will be copied into the Resource Forum.



Cheers ...

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     " ... good  GOD, this is even worse than I thought ... "

Edited by: Smiles2 at: 11/9/04 9:08 pm

I want to share this great link with you, in case you dont know about it.  It is the best all-Thai link page I have encountered on the net:



www.angelfire.com/nj2/stanti/thaimedia.html



Back to topic, as I am trying to get as much help and answers as possible, I want to share a reply I got on a different forum:



"You can get a work permit but if you want to go the full route of being on a biz visa (non imm B ) and not doing visa runs the min wage for Euro farangs is now 55k per month.. With the taxes this means you would pay 6250 income tax per month minimum to 'qualify' for WP and full non imm B status.. Personally I would just 'manage' your investment which seems permitted.."





What does this mean?  None of the lawyers I have been in touch with has mentioned anything about this...  Does it mean that as an employee (of my own company) I have to have a minimum wage of Bath 55.000 per month to get the work permit, and then as an owner I can take out additional profits?  I was planning to take out my salary as, let's say 90% of profits, and have that as a salary post BEFORE netprofits to minimize net profits in order to pay less CIT.  But, then I read somewhere that it is not allowed to adjust the net profit figures after the accounting period has finished thus making this impossible....

Edited by: Gentleviking at: 11/10/04 7:32 am

Hi Gentleviking & welcome to Sawatdee Forum.  Thanks for the interesting question and hope to see you posting often.



May I suggest taking a look at the ThaiVisa Forum.  This is a huge message board with a number of Forums specific to starting up businesses in Thailand.  The message board has an easy & painless registration needed to post.

I cannot imagine that your questions would go unanswered there.  Just click here to view their Forum:  www.thaivisa.com/forum/



I'm sure you'll also get some knowledgable opinions here as well.



Cheers ...



 

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     " ... good  GOD, this is even worse than I thought ... "

but I live in Pattaya most of the year and from what I see of the seasonal crowds, I cannot imagine that any hotel or guesthouse has a profit or even good cash flow from June thru October, given the fact that the crowds are way down and there is serious price cutting by other hotels. It is possible that a small well-run guesthouse with a smart,  aggressive promotional campaign among gays on the internet could keep occupancy good for most of the year. But I don't think it will be an easy thing to accomplish.  

Like all business anywhere it depends on you your staff the location your marketing plan and most of all your continuing available capital over a few years to support it all. Additional Finance needs to be available for a few years after buying and set up.  Most business's that fail anywhere are usually short of capital to keep them going in the hard times. But also from experience in the Bankruptcy field knowing when to walk away from it all is another good sign of a good manager/owner.  Many hotels guest houses have been here for ages so they must make a profit of course but will it keep you in your style?  TIT dont expect real figures when you buy make up your own mind from investigations and books of account, if there are any in smaller venues.

boxertravels.com

Thanks for all the replies, and thank you Moderator for the welcome and the useful link!



I do have a businessplan and playing around with budgets.  I have fresh capital to cover about 4-5 years with 0% occupancy.  I would not want to get in to anything that would require more than 3 staff.  In regards to an F&B operation I am not sure... a lot of extra work... expenses, staff... for not too much extra income.  Maybe a small coffe shop/bar serving snacks... seems like most of the guesthouses on offer do have a small F$B operation running.



Are there any guesthouse owners/operators here that would care to share with me what average monthly expenses they are calculating with (except for payroll)?



From the replies I am getting it seems like it is almost a complete waste of time to do much direct research... everything has to be done there from A to Z.



Do any here have any views on the difference between the gay and straight market?  Is there a difference in demand/supply between these to segments?



In regards to working 24/7: that is the hospitality industry for you :-)  I love it... can't live without it... the 24 hour hussle and bussle... the guest interaction...  I guess it is a lifestyle.

I know nothing about how to run a guest house, and know nothing about business plans etc etc.

However, my view of Thailand at the moment is that it is in a state of flux with regard to the tourist trade. You must have read here about how government is interfering with opening hours and zoning. Pollution, crime and lack of infrastructure are putting off many visitors and there are few signs that the authorities are doing much to alleviate the problem.

I would not like to predict how things will be in 5 years time, and therefore I feel there is a great risk in putting a large amount of money into something.

Of course, there are a huge number of successful businesses here that do exactly what you want to do. As we say in England....the key for a business is location location and location

 

Thanks for the info and the contact asianad.  I will send away an email.  Thanks a lot!

Hello



Firstly, I am a business owner living in Pattaya. So, I do have experience of running a business in Thailand. Asianad is wrong and right in what he says. Just because a business is for sale, does not mean its in trouble. People sell businesses for many reasons. Some because they are loosing money, but also for personal reasons, or they just want a fresh challenge. I bought an existing business here and its been fine and profitable. I am now looking to sell it on as I have a new challenge and want to spend time developing that. This will be a good business for someone.



The second point is work permits. You must have a work permit to work here and they are bloody difficult to get, particularly in the field you want to get in to. You WILL NOT be able to work behind the bar, or in the bar area. You will be able to manage/direct only and thats if you are lucky enough to get a permit.



As in any country throughout the world, accounts are made to show that company in the worst light, for obvious reasons. Even if you do see company accounts they will most probally not tell you how that company is actually performing.



I can refer you on to two companies who won't mind me promoting them I know.



Evans Marketing. Speak to Charles on 01 864 7731 &

Emerald Business Opportunities, Pattaya, and sorry but I have mislaid his card, but he is on the www.



Hope this has been useful?    

The way I was planning to do it and which I have been told is completely straightforward(?) is that, at least at this point, the properties I am looking at are all freehold (Chanote) so I will either use my offshore company (or start up a new one) to do the purchase.  Have I been advised wrongly that this is possible and not a problem?



If I lease, I thought I would do the 39% share to me and the rest spread between 7 thai directors with already signed resignations.



In any of these two cases I thought that a work permit was straight forward to get.  I have been in contact with 5 different thai based law offices (NOT real estate agents) and they all say that it is no problem what so ever... is this wrong???



On a different note... at a different forum I asked the same question about gay versus straight, and the answer I get is that Phuket gay guesthouses are more for fun and hobby than as a real business, and that they are at the bottom of rates and quality... what are your views on this?



I would like to point out that I am coming there to build up my own business that will give me the opportunity to be my own boss and live in the sun and at the same time make a fairly good living.  I am NOT coming because of the boys or the beers!  Allthough it is an added bonus :-)  But, I am completely serious and professional.



And, again, I really appreciate all your helpful replies and private messages.  Thanks!

At the risk of getting shot down in flames from the Thailand lovers, you are not wanted in Thailand. End of story. But don't let that stop you.



Thailand really does not want foreign small business owners. The regulations and red tape is unbelievable. As is the corruption . Always have that in mind, whatever anyone says to you here or "professional people" like lawyers. Things are not easy.



Firstly you MUST have a Thai company before you can apply for a work permit. Thia has to be a minimum 2 million Baht registered company and a limited company. You must also be VAT registered, have a minimum of 4 Thai employee's, be paying them a wage and paying their taxes. All this has to be taking place before you apply for the work permit. You also must have the correct visa, pref Non-Imm 'B' but an 'O' will suffice. I got mine with an 'O'.



Secondly, you must use your Thai company to buy the freehold on the guesthouse. As a foreigner you CANNOT own land or property in Thailand (excluding condo's). Also, you must show this money coming in from outside Thailand, into a Thai bank account and in a foreign currency. Otherwise you will not be issued with a torsam (or tor tor 3) from the bank. You need this to get your money back out of Thailand if you decide not to stay. These points are very important to your future if you do start up here. Check out what I am saying is correct. I know it is, but do your homework.



You also mentioned 7 Thai directors. This is wrong. There are 7 shareholders to a company. You are one, and can be the only director. The other shareholders are not directors, unless you want that.



I can guarantee you work permits are NOT easy to get. And this is more so as far as Chonburi Provence is concerned. I understand they are easier to get in Bangkok and Phuket. The only way you may be able to get one is to pay under the table. Expect that, and expect to pay much more for that also.



I have posted all this here as it maybe useful for others. If I can be of any other help I am please to communicate with you privately. PM me if you have anything else to ask.  



  

Thanks John!  The 7 "directors" was just a mistake.  Since you are so kind to offer assistance I will continue privately via pm.



Are there any that have an opinion about the gay/straight question?  If it is correct that gay guesthouses are at the lower end in quality and professionality I actually see that as an opportunity to offer something really nice!!!

two points:



A close friend of min was in Phuket recently and stayed at a gay guesthouse, almost on the beach - I'm sorry I forgot the name, when it comes to me, I will post it here. He told me that at the beginning of the week, there was 1 other resident in the hotel. By the end of the week, he was the only guest. It was the low season, but it seems to be very low indeed. He thinks there were more than 10 rooms in the place.



Secondly, my observation is that the seasonality problem is one that mostly comes from Westerner tourists, perhaps because of the Northern winter. Asian tourists are more evenly spread through the months, unless it's really wet monsoon season. Might be worthwhile doing some research. you may find it useful  to position your product towards the Asian market.

Gentleviking ... please check your EZInbox personal messages.



Cheers ...

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     " ... good  GOD, this is even worse than I thought ... "