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What's with the 'hearing handicapped' and 'sight handicapped'?

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Oh! aintcha just sick of all this political correctness?

It all started with the Americans you know, on the one hand they are scared to death to offend anyone who is in any way "challenged" and yet when it comes to invading countries and killing innocent people, no probs!

Or perhaps I should say liberating countries and life challenged potential terrorists!

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"You gotta admit it takes real guts to be a Queen in a world full of commoners"

Michael in Queer as Folk

I would like to say a big Thank You! to everyone that has been sharing their knowledge and thoughts... especially John and Asianad!!!



Once I am there I will let you know on my progress.



Again, Thanks a lot... You have been very helpful, and I got a lot more than I hoped for!!!

I'm wondering, Pattaygay, how you propose obtaining work permits for your Australian ladyboys when you open your AUSSIE BOYS BAR.  I doubt you will be able to count on Mr. Botting for help, even if you are on first name terms with his dog.  Or is it your intention to bring in fresh blood every three months?  I would however advise caution in this venture: I'm not so sure any enterprise overseen by you would become popular with customers... not when they realised you personally barebacked each applicant during interview, even if you do know how to treat a lady.

Best to stick with what you know ~ Trolling!

Dick

I am concerned that nothing has been said about the procedure suggested of setting up a company with the shareholders required by Thai law, and having most shareholders submit signed undated resignations and sales of the stock held by them, with such "resignations" being held by the lawyer for use when it seems expedient.  



This is a frequent method used by Thai lawyers and people acting as "consultants", in setting up Thai private companies limited, but it is my understanding -- based on such limited research as I can do into Thai law -- that such an arrangement is illegal and can be set aside and perhaps even risk having the company's property forfeited to the government for failure to have seven shareholders, and using a fraudulent scheme.  A resigned shareholder, even if the resignation and assignment is blank and undated, is a resigned shareholder, and cannot count as one of the seven required.  I am so advised by people I consider knowledgeable in Thai law.  It has also been expressed publicly several times at the Pattaya City Expats Club by a guy who works closely with expats in trouble.



Even though many Thai lawyers and "consultants" use this method, it does not mean it is legal. Many Thai lawyers, unfortunately, will do what the client wants them to do, and seldom tell them "it cannot be done legally." Check thoroughly with a lawyer who deals with expats -- preferably one of the "expensive" but excellent law firms in Bangkok specializing in representing "international clients"-- it is money well spent to protect your proposed investment. (Even the international firms' fees are low by western standards.)



G.P.  

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Is this apples and oranges? ie. Does what you refer to in the context of owning & operating a business here differ from the context of purchasing real estate?

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Same same bkk gwm. See my replies for my take on it.

John Botting wrote:

"...From my REAL LIFE experience 99% of business people I know are set up like this..."



Hi John

I think what GayPattayan is trying to say is that whilst 99% of the businesses may be set up this way... and this is the accepted norm for things to be done...they are still technically not legal!



In other words the Thai govt turns a blind eye to this... at the moment.



But that doesn't mean that Herr Taksin will keep turning a blind eye to this in the future!

OK, John (and others), I think I'm getting the picture now:  technically it's not legal to have Thai "dummy" company with only farang(s) on board after the Thais "resign", but since T.I.T. a blind eye is turned toward all that.



That is something I really have to think about...



But, OK, supposing I *do* form the company, the Thais resign, and I go merrily along, psuedo-owning my property.  What happens if I want to sell (to another farang)?  Do I need to enlist Thai folks to come back on board into the company, to sell the company to the new farang buyer, and then they resign for him?



What a great pool of experience and advice we have on this forum!

First of all, the board members DO NOT resign after the company is registered... you have their signed undated resignation in your posession, but they do not resign.



I will tell you what I have been told by three seperate law firms in Bangkok:



1. How the board members get paid is usually by a yearly fee, for "staying on". Of course the law firm has a pool of people ready to do this... and they want an extra fee to supply you with these people...



2. IF you want to sack one of the members or if one of the members resign you have to replace this member immedeately(!)  From the moment a member resign until you sign on a new one, your company is operating illegally!



This is what I have been explained from three law firms, but I would not be surprised if this is incorrect... hopefully John can elaborate on this...

I think he can take steps now to fix any concerns.... One is to sell the business and or put as partner the person or persons he wants to leave it to.



 

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I don't want to fight. I only want to offer my opinion.

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Thai "dummy" company with only farang(s) on board

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bkk gwm - They are not dummy companies. They are fully registered and tax paying companies, properly accounted every year. This is for both business and property companies.

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with only farang(s) on board after the Thais "resign",

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Not so. The Thais do not resign. The just complete the paperwork, however they are still shareholders with you as the MD and main shareholder holding preferential shares (if its set up correctly). You will retain this paperwork and therefore have complete control over your company. Pseudo board meeting will be held to make certain decisions, which your lawyer will arrange on your behalf.

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What happens if I want to sell (to another farang)?

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Easy. Their name replaces yours as the MD, the shareholders remain in place unless the new owner wishes to replace them.





Now onto Gentleviking



 

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This is what I have been explained from three law

firms, but I would not be surprised if this is incorrect... hopefully John can elaborate on this...

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They are not wrong of course. By reading my replies to bkk gwm you hopefully have the elaboration

This is one of the best things in this forum,i quite enjoy this thread thing.

 I am more worrried about the future of Gay Pattaya and what kind of owners we will have and what sort of shows etc we will have.Most ,some of the farrang bar owners are aging etc.I must admit i have always wanted to own a few go go bars with John ,and own a few beer bars where people can enjoy themselves witout loud music and being hassled by boys.

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What I'm missing is, how can I not be outvoted on an issue, say, to sell the property against my wishes (or, vv, to not let me sell), or be unseated as a director?

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bkk gwm  I know this goes against everything that you have been taught and understand from back home, but I will say it again TIT!!!!



You have nothing to worry about these shareholders. They are shareholders in literally 100's of companies and have no idea what you are doing or have any interest in what you are doing. They get paid their fee and thats the end of it. They don't even know your company name.



I understand your reservations, I had them also in the beginning. However this is how its done here, take it or leave it. You have to feel comfortable. I decided that as many 1000's of people here own land, property and businesses like this then it must be ok, and I went for it.  

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I decided that as many 1000's of people here own land, property and businesses like this then it must be ok

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how many 1000's of people here use herion? how many 1000's of people proctice unsafe sex? is this OK as well?

 

"everyone does it, it is OK" ... isn't that what they used to say about sending your passport over the border with an agent, not reporting your address to Immigration every 90 days, not carrying ID with you, etc.



there is the law, there are the standard things that "everyone" does to get around the intent of the law, and there is selective enforcement of the law - and that selective enforcement can change at a moment's notice and you need to have factored that into your business plan, because when someone decides that you are making too much money or are a threat to their business or when the government of the day decides they need someone to blame for the state of the economy and decide that theses types of companies will be the scapegoat then being the same as "everyone" may not help you much!



most foreigners setting up businesses here do not even begin to understand the differences in the business environment here and what the real threats to their business are and are all to willing to accept the false sense of security offered by "this is how its done here" and "everyone does it this way"



bkkguy

What I referred to was what you said about not being able to even lift an ashtray... I thought what you meant was that that's the way it works if I am the owner only, and that I then am only allowed to manage instead of to operate.  I thought I did not need a WP just to own/manage the liason between myself and lawyer and accountant.



However, I also thought that if I employ myself in my own company conforming with all rules and regulations AS AN EMPLYEE so that I would get a WP, I would then be allowed "to lift an ashtray".... am I wrong?



Also, what will the story be in regards to possible WP in the case of leasing instead of owning freehold???



Sorry, if I misunderstand, but I really want to make things clear, as I have said before, I get much better/serious answers here than any other place!

Edited by: Gentleviking at: 11/12/04 8:33 am

Asianad: Thanks for the good advices! And I will be happy to welcome you when the time comes:-)



I am not fixated on getting /starting a gay guesthouse.  I have said before I got a reply in a different forum that said that gay guesthouse business in Phuket was really at the lower end of the market with low quality and low rates.  Because of that answer, I asked here if this was the case, and if it is then that could possibly be a niche to explore and get market shares in by providing higher standard and more professionality.



The operation I have mangaged before was straight/mixed ultra luxury resort, but very small and intimate: I have helped the late Princess Margareth of England to put her shoes on and also shored a bottle of gin,  I have kicked xx (The richest black woman in America) and her whole entourage out of the resort, I have smoked a joint with xx (whose ex-wife was singing Sweet Dreams are...)on my balcony hiding from his new wife, and had Scandinavian breakfast with xx (Let's Dance...) ++++



I am tired of all that (been some years since I did it) and now want to settle down with my own lowscale small business.... BUT professional and high quality...

Edited by: Gentleviking at: 11/12/04 8:49 am