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Thailand really does not want foreign small business owners. The regulations and red tape is unbelievable.

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perhaps for comparison some people would like to post a similar summary of what would be required for a Thai person to set up and work in a small business in their home country, eg USA, UK, EU, Australia, Brazil, Mexico or wherever



the process for getting a work permit is certainly bureaucratic and the requirements have changed recently but copies of the current requirements, in English and Thai, are available from the Ministry of Labor and if you meet the requirements you will get a work permit - most complaints come from people who are trying to get around some or all of the requirements, much the same could be said about complaints about visa requirements for Thailand



but yes, I agree, nothing is straight forward in this country and Thailand is probably no more open to foreigners coming to live and/or open small businesses than many other countries - the difference is many of us want to come and work and live here and are surprised when the red carpet is not rolled out!



bkkguy

 

There is a separate thread here concerning Spotlight Disco in Sunee. I have heard that the european owners were working at decorating the place before opening. A passing policeman found them thus engaged and they were immediately fined a huge amount of baht for working without a permit. Such is the nonsense you have to put up with. I would also advise getting in contact with the two expat groups who exist in pattaya. They will have members, big and small, who have been through the hoops you are contemplating.

May I nominate this discussion as a candidate for the Resource Forum?  Very good reading (so far <g>), and it seems to not stray from the original topic.

I would assume this means, be the MD of the business and don't work it. Yes you can do this. I do this with the car rental business I own now. However, you are not allowed to do a thing. Only direct a manager or employees. You can not answer the phone or talk to customers about the business. In practice you will. However in my line its easier. In a guest house/bar etc much more difficult as you will be seen. One call to the powers and they are around photographing you lifting an ashtray and its into prison and deportation with that stamped onto your passport. Or, pay 250k Baht under the table to get out of jail and off the charge. Fact!!!



You will be allowed to do book work only, and liaise with accountants/lawyers etc.



The other problem for you will be what visa you get. You will not have a problem in getting a 12 month non imm B in your first year. However there is no guarantee you will get it in subsequent years. I know a couple of bar owners here who did this for 2 years, now can't get a non 'O' or 'B' and on a tourist visa doing runs every 30 days. They have no option. Very risky.    

I read that as you are saying that unless I employ myself in my own business with the relevant WP and visa, I am better off just "managing" and coming and going on a tourist visas?



But, since I really would like to be hands on, am I also assuming correctly that if I give myself at least the minimum wage required (my) company will be able to secure a WP for me that allows me to take an active part in the operation?  Is THIS visa "up in the air" every year as well, or is it more an automatic procedure to get the new visa as long as I am employed and pay the Personal Income Tax required?



Any comments on my my past question about calculating salary versus net profits?



I have to say, to John and everyone else here, that it is amazing the info I am able to get from you compared to what "those that are supposed to know" provide me with.  Maybe it has to do with that I am not there and only have contact with them via phone and email(?)  Actually it feels much more comforting to get it straight from you guys, because the professionals I have been in contact with really do not speak of ANY issues/problems what so ever...

Can I also thank John and others for the helpful information posted here so far.  It is of more than passing interest!

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I read that as you are saying that unless I employ myself in my own business with the relevant WP and visa, I am better off just "managing" and coming and going on a tourist visas?

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You have read that wrong. I just gave my thoughts about what managing you investment could mean. You must have a WP to be active in any business here if you want to be safe.

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But, since I really would like to be hands on, am I also assuming correctly that if I give myself at least the minimum wage required (my) company will be able to secure a WP for me that allows me to take an active part in the operation?

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The WP is not guaranteed. You must understand this. You will have to put everything into place prior to applying for the WP and then apply and pray to whoever that it gets approved.

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Is THIS visa "up in the air" every year as well, or is it more an automatic procedure to get the new visa as long as I am employed and pay the Personal Income Tax required?

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Basically, yes. However if you have submitted your accounts, paid the VAT and your taxes it will normally just be renewed. But it is not guaranteed.

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Any comments on my my past question about calculating salary versus net profits?

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Yes. Leave it to an accountant to sort out for you. They will or should do what is best for you. That is what they get paid for.

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I have to say, to John and everyone else here, that it is amazing the info I am able to get from you compared to what "those that are supposed to know" provide me with.

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Thanks. Experience means everything here. I have been here for 20 months now, and I still have huge frustrations. Expect things to go wrong because they will. These comments are not negative, just realistic. Have your eyes open and understand doing business here is not like doing it back home. If you want recommendations on lawyers or accountants I am happy to do this.      

asianad



your friends really are very silly. You have given them sound, good advice. They are looking for a way to live here and get as many boys as possible as cheaply as possible and that seems to be the only thought inthier heads.



They deserve to fail, and they will. Forget about them.

I would just like to point out, for what it is worth, that I am NOT here asking for help and assistance because I have a tingle in my pants.  I am here asking for (and getting :-))sound advice and help on how to start up a professional business to avoid falling in to all the traps that so many have fallen in to before.



I love Thailand, its people and culture.  It also happens to be that it has a good climate and, most importantly, my money will go a long way if I do things right.  Now, if a boy comes along and offer whatever services it might get accepted, but that could also happen anywhere else in this world, and, as I said, is NOT the reason I am coming there to set up a business.



I just wanted to mention this so this thread will continue on the steady path it has taken thanks to you all.



I am still curious to hear any views on my question in regards to what market to target... and, in YOUR opinion, why?

Whilst the posters on this thread may choose to discuss some details by email, and it be appropriate to do so, I have found this thread most interesting, and hope if it continues we do see some things in the Forum also.

I am also finding this thread interesting and informative

even if I never intend to do business here. Honestly, I think that running a guesthouse has got to be one of the most demanding jobs you can imagine. I have known some friends who decided to do it, one in a very upscale, high rent resort area in atlantic coast Canada; the other on the beach in New England. They both worked their ass off, one ruined his relationship in the process, and ended up selling at a loss after a few painful years. That doesn't mean the guys involved in this thread will fail, but my guess is that making ends meet in a low-rent area like Pattaya, with a dismally low season of 5-7 months, is far from an easy venture. Good luck and make sure you got double the capital you think you need to survive the first year.

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What I referred to was what you said about not being able to even lift an ashtray... I thought what you meant was that that's the way it works if I am the owner only, and that I then am only allowed to manage instead of to operate. I thought I did not need a WP just to own/manage the liason between myself and lawyer and accountant.

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Yes you can manage, direct, as I said earlier. You cannot WORK. Lifting an ashtray was an example, but it is true and could and most probably would be classed as working.

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However, I also thought that if I employ myself in my own company conforming with all rules and regulations AS AN EMPLYEE so that I would get a WP, I would then be allowed "to lift an ashtray".... am I wrong?

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OK, you need to understand, WP's are ONLY issued to foreigners for jobs Thai's are UNABLE to do. Your WP will be very specific about what you can do. If lifting an ashtray to clean a table is not mentioned on your WP you will not be able to lift an ashtray. Plain and simple! The lawyer who does the application for you will structure the WP application so that it will have a better chance of being approved. In other words your job description will state things you will most probably never do. Also, you need to submit with the application, copies of educational certificates and a CV detailing your previous work history. The paperwork is extensive, just wait and you will see what I mean.

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Also, what will the story be in regards to possible WP in the case of leasing instead of owning freehold???

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Makes no difference at all. You will just as quickly be turned down holding the freehold as you will being a leaseholder. Sorry!  

I take a chance on asking one more question about WP even though this was not the main reason for me starting this thread...



Let's say that when I purchase my guesthouse (most likely it will be freehold and not lease) I choose NOT to apply for a WP, but just "manage".  Am I allowed to "manage" the employees directly, or must/should I hire one local "manager" and only "manage" him/her.  On my trips to Thailand it has seemed to me that this has actually been the most common set-up(?)



Hedda, I actually budget for own capital as reserve to last several years.  I am prepared to "go minus" for three years... especailly if I satrt from scratch.



Asianad, your advice is very good.  As I have not yet reached the point on where to start to gain more direct knowledge of where I want to set up , I plan to stay one month at the Club One Seven in Phuket and one month at Poseidon in Pattaya starting middle February.  I fifure this is a good time to scout, and then go for a deal closer to May-June when it is more of a buyers market.



John, you actually seem to know very much about this, and you provide very detailed information.  You could actaully make money on this... but good for me that you share your knowledge here on this forum.

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Let's say that when I purchase my guesthouse (most likely it will be freehold and not lease) I choose NOT to apply for a WP, but just "manage". Am I allowed to "manage" the employees directly, or must/should I hire one local "manager" and only "manage" him/her. On my trips to Thailand it has seemed to me that this has actually been the most common set-up(?)

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You should hire a local manager to act on your behalf. This is what I do also. I tell my manager about things and he directs the staff. You need to make sure that manager is full aware of what you expect and he is rewarded fairly for these additional responsibilities.



This is the only way it can work. If you are directly managing people then it is getting very close to working.