About: LONG TERM RELATIONSHIPS WITH THAI GUYS (title edited) : Resource Forum

Author: **dave thaifreak** » Wed 12 May, 2004 5:17 pm

Might I suggest that this 'gap' is precisely the reason that many of us so much enjoy our time in Thailand and our interaction with the guys we typically meet? I don't think many of us are looking for alleged 'equals'. It may be that those who are intent on replicating western models (whether motivated by our own emotional makeup or by closed-mindedness) are the ones most likely to suffer disappointment. 
 
Long reading on this board and its predecessors has led me to believe that those who delight in the differences (cultural, language, age, experience, oppurtunity) and are willing to enter into the exchange are the ones most likely to find that special someone. 
 
Might I further suggest that upon entering 'thier' turf, thier world, many of these differences are lessened. We may be 'hip to the scene' on our own block, but when we walk out the door of our condo in Thailand or through the arrival gates at BKK we give up some sense of cool. To me, there are only two major categories of farang...those who find joy in the role-change and those who want to drag all thier baggage with them. 
 
Each of us are who we are. Each of us sociable enough to leave the house will find another worthy to be called 'companion'. But it seems to me that those willing to travel or relocate thousands of miles without leaving most of thier shit at home have greatly lessened thier chances for finding a like-minded friend and lover. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=davethaifreak@sawatdeeforum>dave thaifreak</A> at: 12/5/04 6:18 pm

posted in this thread. People who think that romantic, sexual and monogamous lust can last a lifetime are just fooling themselves. The human body isn't programmed that way and efforts to achieve it make most people frustrated and resentful...and eventually alone. 
 
I love my new car, and I won't let anyone drive it except me, but I don't think that puts me and the car in any kind of meaningful relationship. The same principle applies to people. Jealousy is not a sign of affection; it's the mark of insecurity and selfishness. So, if you or your bf gets bent out of shape or hyper when there's talk about an "open" relationship, it's probably because someone's afraid you'll dent the shiny car and ruin an illusion that never existed. 
 
In my experience, the only long term relationships that survive between young thais and old farangs are those which last long enough to get beyond sex and the possessive jealousy that comes with it, and evolve into a more mature and largely non-sexual companionship. I think that's what happens in most straight and gay marriages too. The sexual infatuation always fades and the couple either learn to love and care for each other on another level, or they divorce. 
 
The long-term success stories are couples who live together 24/7, but manage to give each other enough room and privacy to satisfy their libido in and outside the home, while still maintaining that special bond between them.How best to do that is a matter of matching chemistry between two people and no one solution fits all. 
 
In my experience, it's the guys who insist on "total fidelity" who doom their own chance for long-term companionship and happiness, because they inevitably have to resort to fantasies and lies to keep that illusion alive. Old farangs do it because they need to feel "loved and not used." Young Thais do it to preserve their turf, and keep the goose laying golden eggs at home.In most cases,however, once either or both guys start down the road to deception to keep the romantic illusions alive, they end up destroying the trust which any long term partnerships needs to survive. People who think they can keep the honeymoon alive forever, would do well to marry the tooth fairy. 
 
 
 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hedda@sawatdeeforum>Hedda</A> at: 12/5/04 11:31 pm

pete1969 · Author: **pete1969** » Sat 12 Jun, 2004 2:12 am

You know Colonel, I am well aware that Hedda no longer plays with you, and you feel you need a new foil or target in order to feel as if you are deriving any pleasure from this Board. It won't be me who takes up swords with you merely for your amusement. 
 
If in your advanced years you cannot grasp simple concepts presented plainly, you are either willfully ignorant (which means stupid in one with so much experience as yourself) or hopelessly senile. Either way, I would place myself in a no-win situation to verbally spar with you. 
 
I have seen you reduce a number of good and interesting threads to banality with your back and forth repeated insults and endless carping with other posters. With this one exception, you will not get me to engage your childish fancy. 
 
If you cannot fathom that over the last 30 years that some thousands of Thai/farang relationships have probably lasted for some significant period, that a person could reasonably say that a year is a lifetime in relationship cycles where most are lucky to last three months especially when they are trying merely to establish a starting point for a definition of long-term, and that when one states he has HEARD persuasive arguments on a topic that it does not mean that he necessarily supports them (heck, there were several posts on this thread alone that I found persuasive but in the end did not agree with), then your ability at clear thought is greatly suspect. 
 
I would be interested to know what YOU think makes LT relationships between a Thai and farang work, but you have never shown much interest in actually responding to the topic of a thread or making cogent or logical arguments of your own, have you? At least you got the handle right...you are definitely the resident bore. 
 
Flail and flame away at me if you must, but from here on out, I'm like Hedda: I'm completely ignoring you. 
 
Pete Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pete1969>pete1969</A> at: 12/6/04 4:06 am

mauRICE · Author: **mauRICE** » Sat 12 Jun, 2004 4:41 am

Wow, some farang really take this LDR business seriously. Maybe that's why they fall so hard. I myself adopt a carefree, easy-going attitude when in the LOS. Enjoy what is offered, pay when I have to (and pay fairly) and then move on. Never get involved. 
 
There are too many sad stories in the Land of Smiles; some of them true, many are not. It is not my problem. It is the problem of the Thais themselves and those women with big hair sporting Piagets and Rolexes. They don't care so why should I? 
 
Of course, people who live here full time with their partners will feel differently. The trials and tribulations of sustaining a relationship are real. The pitfalls I have described in my posts are from relationships in this category. I would probably not have contributed to this thread had I known the circumstances of the original post. 
 
I find Japanese behaviour most instructive in this regard. There are many of them in Thailand and the Thais are crazy about them. They are generous with tips and gifts and have the kind of look that Thais find attractive. I know many a Thai boy who who would trip over backwards to find a Japanese boyfriend or sugar daddy. But most of them don't. Why? Because the Japanese see things for what they are. Coming from a culture where sex for money and its derivatives are also not uncommon, they are able to see through the beautiful packagings. Thus, they are unlikely to commit themselves to anything long term. 
 
You love, you analyse, you understand, you acculturalise, you romanticise, you help, you compromise, you rationalise but I suspect that a lot of people have forgotten to live and simply enjoy life. What really makes YOU happy? Go for that - you've certainly earned it after working hard all your lives. If you really believe that you can reap happiness vicariously by making somebody else happy and catering to his whims, then I rest my case. If not, you might want to explore other options. There are plenty of fish in the sea. Don't sell yourself short. 
 
PS May I suggest that some of you talk to your $boyfriends$ for a change instead of belabouring every little detail on this board. If The Colonel's gentle chiding and pithy, thought-provoking comments are too much for you, wait till you come to Thailand to live full time. Have fun, darlings. I'm off to Bangkok in the morning and then on to Pattaya at the weekend. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=maurice@sawatdeeforum>mauRICE</A> at: 12/7/04 8:49 am

Author: **The Colonel** » Sat 12 Jun, 2004 10:12 am

... user of the illogical on the Board, someone who when their supposed logic is challenged, cry "foul" 
 
pete1969 wrote (of me) 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>If in your advanced years you cannot grasp simple concepts presented plainly, you are either willfully ignorant (which means stupid in one with so much experience as yourself) or hopelessly senile.<hr></blockquote> 
Got it one, pete. I am - it bears endless repetiton - the guy who proudly records that a drug-crazed hooker in the street in Melbourne called out after my refusal to acknowledge her interest "I wouldn't want you anyway, you bald fat old cunt". So don't bother with the personal insults, I've heard them all 
 
But pete1969's interest is "simple concepts presented plainly" but not "simple concepts presented logically" - or as my good mate Hedda puts it, "naive and fuzzy thinking". pete1969 asserts that that is "carping" 
 
For the record I have recently contributed my views on Thai-Western relationships in a thread started by (gasp!) our very own pete1969 "Are they our equals" and I don't propose wasting bandwidth by repeating those thoughts here - the link is <a href="http://p213.ezboard.com/fsawatdeeforumfrm21.showMessage?topicID=2148.topic">p213.ezboard.com/fsawatde...2148.topic</a> 
 
Perhaps that's one of the threads of which pete1969 so eloquently writes "I have seen you reduce a number of good and interesting threads to banality with your back and forth repeated insults and endless carping with other posters"? I suspect "a number" will turn out to bear the same relationship to reality as the notion that a year-long relationship is, somehow, a "successful LTR" <hr />We are each entitled to our own opinion but no one is entitled to his own facts - Daniel Patrick MoynihanEdited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thecolonel@sawatdeeforum>The Colonel</A> at: 12/6/04 11:44 am

Bob · Author: **Bob** » Sat 12 Jun, 2004 5:49 pm

Too many of you "tink too much." Reminds me of the few residents of the insane asylum who were there, quite simply, because they worried too much if they were sane. You get the result you want by subjectively defining the parameters. 
I go to Thailand 2-3 times every year for 2-3 weeks at a time and I've had what I consider to be a good relationship with my Chiangmai thai friend. I expect the relationship will continue for as long as I continue but I don't worry if it doesn't. I or he might get hit by a truck tomorrow or he/I could tell the other to piss off or, I suppose, the end of the world may occur this coming Saturday at 4:23PM. I'm not going to define or categorize how we feel about each other as I don't feel the need to do that (nor do I seek anyone else's approval even if I could define it accurately). 
Posters using blanket statements ("most" or "all" falang relationships are this way or that way) are only telling me that's how they negatively and narrowly see the world and their telling me their factless findings (based on their very few good or bad relationships) certainly doesn't enhance their long-term credibility. 
Damn, go with the flow, make an effort, treat them with respect, learn a bit here and there, try to not repeat mistakes you make, and enjoy the good moments you have. If there are no good times for you, you've truly earned it. 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=bob@sawatdeeforum>Bob</A> at: 12/6/04 6:51 pm

Author: **Dodger** » Sat 12 Jun, 2004 7:05 pm

Bob, 
 
Thanks for sharing...I like how you tink. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dodger@sawatdeeforum>Dodger</A> at: 12/6/04 8:05 pm

Author: **Hedda** » Sat 12 Jun, 2004 10:26 pm

spending a few weeks with some Thai guy a few times a year and calling that a relationship is fine, if that makes you happy, but don't try and apply that situation to start telling guys who live with someone 24/7, that they think or worry too much about their relationships. 
 
It's easy to impose happy-go-lucky rules to sex-buddy romances. It's great not to worry if you might never see him again. But that attitude hardly defines a relationship in any sense other than a convenient and comfortable sexual one. Obviously, no one wants to think too much about someone they see for a total of 6 weeks a year; you'd go crazy doing it. But don't kid yourself. You'll never cope with the joys and woes of living with someone every day, 24/7 if you slap that "what me worry" label on it. Try going to bed and waking up with the same guy every day for the next five years and maybe you'll discover there's a vast difference between telling guys who do it that they think too much about relationships and thinking not at all. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hedda@sawatdeeforum>Hedda</A> at: 12/7/04 1:11 am

pete1969 · Author: **pete1969** » Mon 12 Jul, 2004 2:33 am

* There is an old Janis Joplin song with the words "Freedom's just another name for nothing left to lose." There is also a Terry Temptest William's essay where she talks of two herons on a river. About them she says, "Their decisions are not based on a terror of loss." 
 
It is quite the sword's edge, this line between freedom and loss, and IMHO, perhaps the most maddening thing about being in a relationship. For if one has a serious, romantic, relationship that could become a long-term or even a lifetime prospect, then it is probably impossible not to give it serious thought and complementation. Involved and complicated relationships (as are ones with someone from a very different culture) do take thought, and work, and compromise, and understanding. Is it worth it? Most days, hell yes, and a few that make you scratch your head and wonder. 
 
*Don't take the collective navel gazing of this Board as too much angst. Merely it is the reflections of those who enjoy lively discussion and debate engaging in such on one of their favorite topics: LOS and the men who inhabit it. 
 
*I would agree with Dodger 100% that if a boy is only in a relationship to get his physical needs fulfilled (security needs), and a farang only to get his emotional needs fulfilled, then it is a relationship that probably would not work. (Please note the probably.) 
 
But again, we cannot make an assumption that just because a farang takes care of his Thai bf's security/ financial needs, that the bf has no emotional investment or is not getting his own emotional needs fulfilled. Speaking only on my experience, one of my bf's greatest emotional needs is to find someone who is "true to him" (his words), meaning that he wants someone he can count on day in and day out over the long term to be there for him. The longer we are together, the more he feels he can trust me,and the more he loves me because I am fulfilling this emotional need of his. 
 
*From my reading of this thread, it seems that good communication might be the most important part of maintaining a relationship. 
 
*My Thai bf is not overly inquisitive about my life, but I chalk that up to his culture. I am always amazed at how little his long term friends know about his life at home and his family and that his family knows nothing of his work life. My understanding is that Thai's are not a people that ask a lot of personal, probing questions. 
 
As a matter of fact, my bf often tells me not to ask so many questions and to do like he does and learn by listening (damn, but I am not very good at that). And it does amaze me how often he remembers the most inconsequential thing about my life that I mentioned in passing months before. 
 
Pete Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pete1969>pete1969</A> at: 12/7/04 3:40 am

Author: **Dodger** » Mon 12 Jul, 2004 11:53 am

Wide Traveler, 
 
I suggest that you read and re-read the many perspectives being offered on this topic and make a decision that feels right to you...which brings to mind an interesting Buddhist concept... 
 
"Our internal voice will not always tell us the right way to go - but will always tell us the wrong way." 
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dodger@sawatdeeforum>Dodger</A> at: 12/7/04 1:15 pm

pete1969 · Author: **pete1969** » Thu 12 Aug, 2004 3:31 am

And I wasn't going to post anymore to this thread, but I can't resist this one: 
 
Wide Traveler, 
 
A monthly allowance is a good idea. However, I would advise you to really think through what you want and can afford to give and if you are ready for a relationship that involves you giving money. It is not easy for many reasons, chief among them trusting that the guy likes you and not just the money, understanding that you are not buying anything from the guy with the money you give, and struggling with how to develop a normal relationship when money is a factor. Many well meaning farang start down this path and discover a few months in that they are just not cut out to be a sugar daddy; it just goes against something in them, that try as they might, they cannot shake. IT IS NOT EASY reconciling romance and cold hard cash. Please take a hard look at your self and know that you can do it, or otherwise you will probably end up hurting yourself and your friend, as well as ending up with a soured relationship. 
 
From what I have read and heard, most farang settle on a monthly allowance of 5,000 to 15,000 baht each month. I strongly suggest starting off for the first few months giving about half the amount you might feel comfortable giving. As well, you must be very clear with the guy that you will send that amount and not one penny more regardless of what may happen in his life. This way, you will find out very quickly if he has any real interest in establishing a LT relationship with you, or if he just wants a cash cow (if he just wants a cash cow the stories about the sick mother and the dead buffalo will start coming fast and furious, and while it might be okay to try to get money from you, it certainly does not bode well if he throws you attitude when you say no). It is okay that the guy might be looking for someone to take care of him; however, a Thai person usually does not rush into any relationship, and if he is sincere, he will appreciate and respect you for taking things slowly and should understand your reasoning about the money without you even telling him. 
 
After a few months, if you feel he is sincere, then you might discuss with him his financial needs and what he expects from you. You can then negotiate a higher allowance. You can also set some expectations of your own. Again, in the first few months, I would expect nothing but some basic communication and to see how things develop. I reset my bf's allowance after 4 months (when we actually decided to give the bf thing a try). After 6 months, due to several factors, he left his job at which time I raised his allowance once again (to reflect his best month's salary from his job, lower than what I thought it might be). He and I both know he is at a ceiling on the allowance. I did move a bit faster in the money realm with the bf than I wanted, but it worked out the way it did in a natural progression. 
 
I opened up a separate bank account for my bf and sent him the ATM card for that account. Money transfers and Western union are very expensive. I only put his allowance in that account. I usually send his allowance to him broken up into weekly installments. We both like this method as it allows him to have better control of his money. He has never tried to overdraw the account, and it would be tough for him to do so. I sent the ATM card the first week I came home after our first meeting. It was the cheapest and best option I could find (also you can very easily transfer money between accounts online if the accounts are with the same bank which is another handy advantage to him having an ATM card). 
 
After seven months, I also gave my bf a credit card on a shared credit account. He never uses it without my permission, and the limit is very low ($500 USD). I gave him this for many reasons: face; so I could call him once a month or so and treat him to a new shirt or pair of pants; so he would have a major credit card in his name for when we travel or for when he might need it; and for him to use when I take him shopping in LOS (gosh, I always love the look on the clerk's face when they look to me for payment and the bf whips out his own credit card, and it certainly makes him feel good too). 
 
This is just my experience. Money in a relationship is a very personal matter between you and your guy. If you have read this thread, you probably already know that I think that money is one of the biggest factors in Thai/farang relationships (and mostly to the detriment of those relationships), so please tread carefully. I know it is only MHO, but think about it. 
 
Good luck to you! 
 
Pete 
 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://p213.ezboard.com/bsawatdeeforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pete1969>pete1969</A> at: 12/8/04 4:35 am

Author: **Khunying Sanitree** » Tue 30 Nov, 2004 3:09 am

It's been 12 years and somehow we survive, there have been rocky patches but we are at that stage where we are more friends than lovers (in the sexual sense) we are free to go off and have other partners but so far we have not yet found 
1. Anyone we prefer to live with more than each other! 
2. Anyone who'll put up with us for longer than 1 night! <hr /> 
"You gotta admit it takes real guts to be a Queen in a world full of commoners" 
Michael in Queer as Folk

Author: **pattayagay** » Tue 30 Nov, 2004 3:21 am

I no longer see my Ex BF as my BF anymore,meaning he s free to do what he wants.I no longer "chase" him. 
I see him all the time i come to Pattaya,he s very bad boy even though he says i am.He tells me how he rips farang off etc.We both dont like the beach,we both like hip hop.He likes Muay Thai boxing etc. 
He likes fighting ,he likes everything i mostly do. 
He hates farangs.He saved my life last friday night.

Author: **pattayagay** » Tue 30 Nov, 2004 4:33 am

Thats very interesting Maurice,your saying a lie is a lie,and whether there THai or not,they re still lying and theres no excuse? 
You know i was sitting in a cafe in DAy/Night on Sunday morninng and i heard this old guy farang say to another farang,that another farang had told him he had caught the boy looking thru his bag whilst he was in the shower and this farang was upset,so he told him the Thai boy was curious about him thats why he done it,we all know thats bullshit.

RichLB · Author: **RichLB** » Tue 30 Nov, 2004 6:22 am

How can a retired relationship counselor resist responding? Let me credential myself for this question. I've been in a farang-farang relationship for 35 years now and simultaneously a Thai-farang relationship for 5. It seems to me the secret to both is not really culturally dependent at all. I also don't think it's all that complicated. 
 
The secret is the realization that no one is responsible for making you happy - that's your job. The hard part is resisting the temptation to fall into the "More - Better - Different" syndrome. Seldom is "more" time, "more" sex, "more" attention, etc. the answer. Folks who try this way of "fixing" a relationship usually give up (since it doesn't work) and try to switch to "better" quality time, "better" sex, "better" expressions of attention, etc. Soon, they discover that this doesn't work either. That's when the appeal of "Different" rears it's head. The belief is that what they need is spending "different" time with a new person, "different" sex with a new body, "different" attention from someone new, etc. Once Mr. Different is established, the pattern usually repeats all over again. 
 
So, again, the secret is to recognize that to make changes in a relationship means making the changes in yourself which creates happiness in you. Simple enough in concept, but often tough in reality.

the age and experience gap

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